Fed vs. Imp Corporate Battle

[Sharpshooter]

Let's suppose that, for reasons unknown, the Galactic Empire doesn't immedietly whip the Federation of Planets good and proper, and a firm, but tense, relationship exists between the two. The sights of one's ships in the other's universe becomes a common sight, and the two generally operate with a sense of toloration as they go about their business.

Having somehow managed to understand the principles behind the wormhole that enabled the two galaxies to connect in the first place, the two use technology based upon these principles to continue exploration and domination. During an exploration mission in another galaxy, the Empire and the Federation's scouting ships simaltaniously enter and lay claim to a solar system which is remarkable identical to Earth's in centuries past, right down to a civilization on the system's third planet that has begun its own pre-FTL exploration and colonization of the system. The Federation itself isn't really interested in the civilization, what with the Prime Directive and all, but they're forced into interaction when the Empire makes itself known to the civilization and happens to mention the Federation during introductions and such.

Now, both the Empire and the Federation would like to be able to have this particular planet ally themselves with their particular political entity, but they can't really do anything to directly sway the planet to join, for one reason or another, but they nevertheless try to engage in negotiations that would have the civilization join with them. The civilization's a bit unwary about doing such, though, since they really don't know just what they might be getting into, but they eventually decide on a way to determine where they'll go and who they'll deal with.

The civilization's governing body will allow the Federation and the Empire to each construct a number of factories and supply depots, and will also lease to each several hundred unoccupied shopping outlets across the planet, where they'll be able to sell to the populace goods and services from their respective economies: the one that attracts the most consumer attention and remains standing the longest will be the faction the civilization joins. While there will be little restriction on standard consumer goods - clothes, household appliances, various articles from entertainment, legal weapons, and small to medium-sized vehicles - they cannot vend anything that is beyond the civilization's current capacity to use or would be prone to abuse at the current stage: for example, they can sell personal spacecraft, but they can't sell heavy ordinance such as turbolasers, missiles, and torpedoes, and they can only sell FTL drives with low speeds, something that could take them to the edge of the solar system at a decent clip, but would be useless for going anywhere else. Other common-sense practices are employed - no narcotics or illegal substances, no military-grade equipment to civilians (though it's allowed to the government) and illegal activities on behalf of either faction will result in consequences - not to mention neither faction's leaders, due to the treaties that led to the current relationship, will stand for such behavior - though standard corporate shinanigans are still allowed.

So: between FedSmart and The Imperial Depot, whose goods will appeal more to the typical modern-day consumer and political bodies, and who will generate the largest profit?

To make things interesting, let's divide this into two different Federation types, each of which has its own scenario: the manly Federation that we saw in TOS, which somehow didn't suffer from the communist takeover that led to the Federation of TNG and beyond, and the communist Federation whose policies we love to nitpick and bash.

[Nick Lancaster]

Trekkie Answer: We have replicators.

Imperial Answer: We have droids.

While both societies have a certain 'landed nobility' factor, we never actually find out why the members of the Federation, particularly Earth, enjoy this excess of leisure time. There are occasional references to professions - there are scientists, colonists, doctors, chefs, floor waxers (ST II: TWOK) ... but there's something insidious about a society where the dirty work gets done by invisible legions.

On the other hand, the Empire makes no secret of there being haves and have-nots, and the absence of labor is resolved by droids. Faithful, numerous, and apparently free of the glitchy programming that makes androids with ethical subroutines run amok at convenient moments, but somehow never gets around to questioning the frequent and glaring ethical lapses engaged in shipwide aboard the Enterprise.

Droids are superior to replicator-tech. We've seen episodes where manufacturing defects exist (how?) and even lethal viruses have been propagated (DS9) through replicator systems. Droids? Heck, they'll line up to do the job as instructed, even if they're getting shot at.

Much will depend on the mindset of the target market. If you can sell magictech to them, then replication systems will become popular. If, on the other hand, they prefer visible labor and the reassurance of a physical presence, then droids will sell far better. Also, a droid is something you can possess; we have not seen that the Federation actually sells replicator units per se - a customer might have to go to a FedMart outlet and order their goods there (Worf is seen 'shopping' in this manner in one episode).

On the corporate dirty-tricks front, since it's been established that Federation technology is surprisingly inbred - that is, you can reverse engineer practically everything from a single item (TOS: A Piece of the Action) - the Empire could ostensibly purchase a replicator unit and then flood the market with cheaper knock-offs. The Federation (?TOS) would inherently shy away from droid labor pools as a form of inherent slavery, while the Federation (?TNG) would somehow rationalize the corporate necessity (even as the dramatic leads wring their hands).

[Coalition]

Hmm, how about the mercenary front:

Trek: We have lots of guys in red shirts who walk to their target, carrying hand weapons that depend on a chain reaction. For support, we have hoppers, similar to your helicoptors, transporter jammers to keep anyone from being kidnapped, and shoulder mounted anti-personnel weaponry.

Wars: We have lots of guys who ride to their target in heavily armored vehicles, carry anti-personnel weapons, hand grenades, and space-suit capable body armor as standard. We also have artillery, theater shields, extensive targeting, ECM, and ECCM equipment. For aerial support we have assault shuttles that are designed to be hit, survive, and kill the guy who fired upon them. Plus droids designed for combat that will survive any biological or chemical threat that would kill a humanoid, and can be mindwiped afterwards to provide full deniability.

Star Wars takes it.

[lPeregrine]

illegal activities on behalf of either faction will result in consequences

Combat power doesn't matter here, since simply blowing away the competition (literally) would probably be considered illegal.

As for the scenario, are we talking about the no-money Federation whose officers can't even understand the concept of "investment"? And who would probably be just as hopeless with every other principle of running a business?

[Locutus_8472]

What if they let Nog run it? He is a Ferengi after all...

[Coalition]

Combat power doesn't matter here, since simply blowing away the competition (literally) would probably be considered illegal.

Completely true. However, to forces on the planet that are still fighting each other, who would they hire if they needed troops?

Not to mention, if the planet wants to upgrade its military, and can buy from either side, who would they buy from?

Of course, it could depend on need. If they just need basic security at airports, with smiling faces, and clean weapons, the Feds would take it. If they need forces capable of taking to the field, and destroying the opponent, they might choose the Imperial.

God point though. Closer than I thought, because of the need of the troops.

[Jawawithagun]

Combat power doesn't matter here, since simply blowing away the competition (literally) would probably be considered illegal.

Completely true. However, to forces on the planet that are still fighting each other, who would they hire if they needed troops?

Not to mention, if the planet wants to upgrade its military, and can buy from either side, who would they buy from?

Of course, it could depend on need. If they just need basic security at airports, with smiling faces, and clean weapons, the Feds would take it. If they need forces capable of taking to the field, and destroying the opponent, they might choose the Imperial.

God point though. Closer than I thought, because of the need of the troops.

Now they're even taking our boys' jobs, eh? Bloody aliens!

But as for buying equipment and stuff - the final answer will probably be both. Too many factors figure in, starting with the price, my requirements, secondary costs etc.

So I might buy a SW freighter to do my business among the stars but also have a ST transporter for time critical transports at planetary distances.

[Darth Lucifer]

This is where Imperial design, engineering , and practicality will shine through. I think that those who are quick to get new gadgets (and they exist in real life too) will probably jump onto the tech of both franchises for their own reasons. However, I think in the long run, cosumers want a product they can rely on.

Star Trek technology has been consistently shown to use bad design principles and unnecessary high tech solutions for simple problems, both of which have been discussed elsewhere on this site/forum.

Here's some things Trek has to offer:
Replicators- been pointed out by everyone
Holograms - an alternative to droids
Holodecks - I'd love to be the first to have one
Transporters - could be a tricky sell

Star Wars brings to the marketplace:
Droids- again pointed out by others
Bacta - Assuming it will work with these aliens
Guns, Guns, Guns!!! I'd take a SW blaster over a ST phaser
Cybernetics - Really comparable to Trek, possibly superior, maybe not. Any volunteers on this?

This is a fun topic!!

[Jaepheth]

Cybernetics - Really comparable to Trek, possibly superior, maybe not. Any volunteers on this?

This is a fun topic!!

I'll list what I can remember from canon...

Luke has his arm replaced so that it is indistinguishable from the original. Anakin's arm is obviously mechanical at the end of AOTC.
I want to say that the operators on the droid control ship ("They've gone up the ventilation shaft") were cybernetically enhanced, but I have no evidence other than a gut feeling.
Calrissian's Assistant has the head gear that can recieve messages.


Geordi's sight depends on an external visor, we see Him with cybernetic eyes in a future self in Voy. 7of9's arm is cybernetic, as well as one of her eyes, however, the neural interface is Borg, not installed by the Feds. Picard's heart is artificial, and fails from a blast that a natural heart would have sustained.

I think both have demonstrated the ability to create aesthetically real cybernetic body parts, but I think the SW universe has the advantage when it comes to the Mind-Machine interface.

as to the OP, so... this is sort of a Czerka vs Ferengi? no... Ferengi aren't part of the Federation, are they? well, I think the Empire has a clear advantage because of the many millenias' experience in a galactic cut-throat economy

[Bounty]

Geordi's sight depends on an external visor, we see Him with cybernetic eyes in a future self in Voy.

He has the eyes in First Contact and Nemesis, too.

Nog's new leg was, IIRC, as good as his old one. Did we ever get a close look at it ?

[consequences]

The Empire offers the ruling body enough money to purchase the system from them. They bribe the judiciary to draft legislation that cripples the Federation's efforts. They make treaties with surrounding powers to create a three dimensional bubble of space around the system that the Federation can not pass through without paying ruinous tariffs. They offer tax credits to their own corporations to provide their goods and services at literally next to nothing to the populace of the planet. They engae in a vicious smear campaign against Federation tech, using every example they can come up with of things that have gone wrong with it, and purchasing the Fed merchandise to have dedicated R&D teams monkey with it to find more ways it can go wrong.

Realistically, they just purchase the Federation iself out of petty cash at the start of their interaction with them.

[Junghalli]

The Empire's superior technology would give it an advantage in some areas (I mean, would you buy Fed ships for your new Navy if you could have ISDs with 200 gigaton turbolasers instead?), but I think the TOS Federation could probably hold its own in this scenario.
The TNG Federation would be a whole different barrel of fish. Being good communists merchants are undoubtedly objects of loathing in their society. In one DS9 episode Vash (archaeologist who got sent to Gamma Quadrant by Q/Picard's girlfriend) lets Quark sell some artifacts she got from the GQ and one of the characters observed that she was engaging in "base commerce." The way he said it gave you the impression that the TNG Fed considers buisness about on a par with prostitution as an honorable profession.

[Darth Lucifer]

In one DS9 episode Vash (archaeologist who got sent to Gamma Quadrant by Q/Picard's girlfriend) lets Quark sell some artifacts she got from the GQ and one of the characters observed that she was engaging in "base commerce." The way he said it gave you the impression that the TNG Fed considers buisness about on a par with prostitution as an honorable profession.

Just to play devil's advocate, she was trying to sell artifacts strictly for personal profit as opposed to doing something more hoity-toity like donating it to some museum. In that sense, it could be considered "base."

But a woman's gotta make a living too, and those Feddies don't pay a lot from what I hear...