The Genesis Device, Ultimate Trek DeusEx?

[Crossroads Inc.]

Something else I have been thinking about of late. The Genesis Device, while we never get to know enough about it to flesh out it’s properties or how it reacts to various things, it is still worth considering.

In the endless SWvsST threads, usually the Trekkies will bring out a long parade of bizarre, silly, and impractical DeusEx they think of using to defeat StarWars ships. Almost all of these are wildly impractical and easily dismissed…

But…

What of the Genesis Device? What would happen if you shot one at an ISD? Or even a DeathStar? Boom? Dud? What are your thoughts?

[SirNitram]

I find it really unlikely it would work through an energy shield. Similarly, why would it work on the ridiculously dense materials of hull armour?

[The Spartan]

What makes you think they'd survive long enough to be in range to fire the Genesis torpedo? Besides even if they did manage to get a shot off the torpedo would likely be shot down.

And if it did it I doubt it would do much but make the shields glow locally for a few seconds.

[Trekdestroyer]

Let's look at the facts:
The Genisis Device is a device that makes barran worlds teem with animal and plant life. Would someone please explain to me what about this thing says 'weapon' to the feddies? It makes planets for crying out loud, not blow stuff up! Is there anyone who can give me an answer?

[Jon]

Let's look at the facts:
The Genisis Device is a device that makes barran worlds teem with animal and plant life. Would someone please explain to me what about this thing says 'weapon' to the feddies? It makes planets for crying out loud, not blow stuff up! Is there anyone who can give me an answer?

I think the ability to transform matter on a global scale in a matter of minutes hints that in the right circumstances is could very well be used as a weapon.

[Jon]

*in some circumstances, not suggesting it would work in a versus scenario, was just answering you question about why people assume it could be used as a weapon.

[SirNitram]

Well, it was proposed as a terror-weapon against inhabited planets, but making the leap from 'Kills people as it reorganizes an unshielded planet' to 'It can pop starships' is an absurd leap in logic.

[Firefox]

It was probably assumed to be an equally effective ship killer since the Reliant exploded after the device detonated. Of course, this forgets that Reliant was heavily damaged, in addition to being a pretty small ship by Wars standards.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Well, that is sort of why I asked the question…

I was just thinking about the concept of it, that, fired at an object, planet or ship, it quickly reconfigures all mater on a molecular level into new forms.

Running with this, you could make the assumption that fires at any form of mass (like an ISD) it would reconfigure that mass into a completely new and different form, effectively destroying whatever was originally their.

[Nick Lancaster]

David Marcus violated Federation science protocols and used protomatter to solve certain equations. The Genesis Project was originally classified; after its accidental detonation in the Mutara Nebula, and the discovery of the use of protomatter, there is no reason that a Genesis Device would exist in any form, as the prototype was destroyed.

However, it does stand as a potential weapon if misused, and this was recognized by Dr. McCoy, when he commented on Genesis replacing an existing matrix.

[SirNitram]

Well, that is sort of why I asked the question…

I was just thinking about the concept of it, that, fired at an object, planet or ship, it quickly reconfigures all mater on a molecular level into new forms.

Running with this, you could make the assumption that fires at any form of mass (like an ISD) it would reconfigure that mass into a completely new and different form, effectively destroying whatever was originally their.

Well, you'd need reliable proof it can transmute elements as opposed to rearrange existing ones. Then you'd need proof that, unlike ninety percent of Federation tech, it can work with exceptionally dense materials to effect Imperial ships and bases, then you'd need to prove it can work through energy shielding with no known frequency dependency.

If you want to propose it, that's alot of work to do.

[Crossroads Inc.]

If you want to propose it, that's alot of work to do.

No no, thats quite alright
This whole thing came about this morning when I was ratteling through a list of Treknobable that had yet to be used by Trekkies in SWvST debates.

[SirNitram]

If you want to propose it, that's alot of work to do.

No no, thats quite alright
This whole thing came about this morning when I was ratteling through a list of Treknobable that had yet to be used by Trekkies in SWvST debates.

Sorry. It's one of the oldest peices of bull slapped out. Check SDnet's main page to see it in the analysis of special techs.

[Robert Walper]

It was probably assumed to be an equally effective ship killer since the Reliant exploded after the device detonated. Of course, this forgets that Reliant was heavily damaged, in addition to being a pretty small ship by Wars standards.

Not to mention the device was already inside the Reliant, which is by any standards bypassing it's typical defenses, had they even been operable.

One should be more inclined to argue how it was considered a serious threat the the Enterprise which was fleeing the area in an attempt to suggest effectiveness against spacecraft.

[Batman]

Not to mention the device was already inside the Reliant, which is by any standards bypassing it's typical defenses, had they even been operable.
One should be more inclined to argue how it was considered a serious threat the the Enterprise which was fleeing the area in an attempt to suggest effectiveness against spacecraft.

Indeed. An Enterprise which had no shields, was limping about on partial (if any) impulse power, and was within spitting distance of Reliant...

[Praxis]

It transforms matter.

On an unshielded ISD, it should insantly reform it into an asteroid or something.

On a shielded ISD, it's anyone's guess whether it would penetrate the shield, but I would guess not. It does depend on where the ISD is, though. I mean, it would suck to be in a nebula when it goes off, and your shields block the blast but the nebula turn into a planet around you...

[Natorgator]

Wouldn't it take shitloads of energy to rip apart atoms from their molecular bonds and rearrange them? If so could the energy overwhelm an ISD's shields?

[Junghalli]

It was probably assumed to be an equally effective ship killer since the Reliant exploded after the device detonated. Of course, this forgets that Reliant was heavily damaged, in addition to being a pretty small ship by Wars standards.

Khan seemed confident it would take out the Enterprise as well. And his "no, you can't get away comment" seems to suggest it could do so over a fairly large radius (Enterprise had to warp out to be safe from the explosion). No clue whether it could take out an ISD, it would have to generate TT of energy to do so.
Just a thought, if I was making a Genesis weapon I wouldn't use the terraformer torpedo. That undoubtedly uses up a lot of whatever energy it generates in creating the new atmosphere and landscape. You'd probably have a more destructive weapon if you just set it to cause an uncontrolled Genesis-wave reaction that would just fry everything (IIRC they had a weapon like this in Starcrossed: the Shiva Effect bomb they used on Remus).

[Stark]

So, because using the device INSIDE an UNSTABLE starship inside a NEBULA it was going to REACT with and REBUILD was dangerous to ships ALSO in the nebula, ALSO unstable, unshielded, etc, then slamming it against shields will killzor them? What the fuck logic is that?

And the 'makes planet out of nebula' = 'transforms ISD into asteroid' argument is silly.

[Junghalli]

So, because using the device INSIDE an UNSTABLE starship inside a NEBULA it was going to REACT with and REBUILD was dangerous to ships ALSO in the nebula, ALSO unstable, unshielded, etc, then slamming it against shields will killzor them? What the fuck logic is that?

Most nebulae are extremely thin, virtually vacuum. I doubt the Genesis wave would have been made much more dangerous by having nebular material (which, again, is close to being vacuum) to conduct it.
On the other hand the Mutara nebula did mess with shields and sensors. Maybe they were in a very dense, highly energized part of the nebula close to a protostar?

[SirNitram]

So, because using the device INSIDE an UNSTABLE starship inside a NEBULA it was going to REACT with and REBUILD was dangerous to ships ALSO in the nebula, ALSO unstable, unshielded, etc, then slamming it against shields will killzor them? What the fuck logic is that?

Most nebulae are extremely thin, virtually vacuum. I doubt the Genesis wave would have been made much more dangerous by having nebular material (which, again, is close to being vacuum) to conduct it.
On the other hand the Mutara nebula did mess with shields and sensors. Maybe they were in a very dense, highly energized part of the nebula close to a protostar?

Most Trek Nebulae are ridiculously dense, and Mutara was no different. Hint: Most Nebulae are so thin they wouldn't look like that from the inside.

[Stark]

Not only was it uber dense, but the nebula gave the 'Genesis wave' something to work with. In regular battle environments, whats it going to do? Create a terrifying pressure wave with... oh... fairies? How's it going to damage a ship by restructuring matter when THERE ISN'T ANY? Bah.

[Scrubula]

How's it going to damage a ship by restructuring matter when THERE ISN'T ANY? Bah.

Um, last time I checked, ships are indeed made of matter.

Shielded or unshielded, if the genesis effect comes in contact with the matter of the ship, I think the ship is in for a rapid and violent restructuring of some type.

[SirNitram]

How's it going to damage a ship by restructuring matter when THERE ISN'T ANY? Bah.

Um, last time I checked, ships are indeed made of matter.

Shielded or unshielded, if the genesis effect comes in contact with the matter of the ship, I think the ship is in for a rapid and violent restructuring of some type.

And why do you think it'll work through shields? Trekkie decoder ring?

[Crossroads Inc.]

And why do you think it'll work through shields? Trekkie decoder ring?

*sniggers* Hey, classic...

Yea, if any ship was stupid enough to be running with shields down, the Genesis Device might do it harm. But baring that, thier is no evidance at all, that the GD will pass throgh shields, infact very weak shields may be able to stop it.