Assimalating SW

[Dark]

OK say the borg lern how to open a rif into the SW dimension like thay did with species 8472 and by some mirecle board and assimalte an impiral cruser, then take it back with them.

Would the borg be able to use SW technology?

[Ghost Rider]

Assmilation does not equate comprehension, let alone power generation.

[Darth Wong]

This question buries part of its answer in its premise, by assuming that the Borg can successfully assimilate the vessel in the first place.

However, it should be noted that even if you can assimilate something, you can't necessarily reproduce it as Ghost Rider says. For example, suppose you can take control of a computer. Suppose you're such a brilliant reverse-engineer that you can even figure out how it works. But if you don't know how to make microchips, how are you are ever going to make another one? The technology for making microchips is not included with the computer.

[OmegaGuy]

Yeah, they probably won't be able to make hypermatter and stuff.

[Dark]

but in Voyager the episode with the Omaga particle Janeway says to 7 of 9 that the borg had assimilated federation captins so thay would know about the omaga particle already thats why she gets her to help.

So if the borg assimalte the crew thay should have the knolage.

Well atleast thats what thought.

[Surlethe]

but in Voyager the episode with the Omaga particle Janeway says to 7 of 9 that the borg had assimilated federation captins so thay would know about the omaga particle already thats why she gets her to help.

So if the borg assimalte the crew thay should have the knolage.

Well atleast thats what thought.

There's no reason the crew would have knowledge of how to construct SW tech, and no reason to believe the Borg would have the knowledge of how to procure the materials to construct SW tech, let alone mount a SD gun on a cube (to give a ludicrous example; if they mounted a turbolaser on a cube, the first shot would blow the gun back through the cube).

[Lord Revan]

it should be noted that in several cases the Federation is less advanced then the Borg and it's certain that UFP core techbase is not several hundreds (at least) above that of the Borg, but this is not the case with SW. The Galactic Republic is about 25.000 years old (though it existed in several incarnation during this time) and they had FTL drive already during that time.

frankly there's no reason to assume that the Borg can assimilate SW tech, just because they can assimilate UFP tech they unaware of before, the tech gap is just too big.

[Knife]

OK say the borg lern how to open a rif into the SW dimension like thay did with species 8472 and by some mirecle board and assimalte an impiral cruser, then take it back with them.

Would the borg be able to use SW technology?

define 'assimulate'? A vast array of ST tech is roughly the same, or simular, IE frequency based weapons and shields, M/AM warp, ect...The Borg actually already has a good understanding of the priciples of these things.

For a Borg Drone to go aboard a SW ship, dump out some nano probe thingys and expect to take control of the ship is silly.

[jegs2]

As a fair comparison, let's say that a Eighteenth Century battalion of British soldiers manages to overtake the crew of a modern US destroyer that is somehow stranded in their time period, and let's go further and say that they manage to somehow torture all the useful information from the crew prior to taking complete control of it. Now, they may have some form of working knowledge on how to operate the destroyer, but (assuming they have no access to modern machinery, equipment, fuel, etc. in 18th Century England) they have no ability to build more ships using 18th Century technology, procure more fuel to supply them, replace failing systems within the one "assimilated" ship, etc.

[ngc7293]

All the Borg would have is that single ship. The people who built the ships and the people who would understand the physics, etc. about the tech are not on the ship. Even an engineer (I'm guessing) on such a ship would know how to fix things or replace things, but would not understand the underlying basic technology.

The Borg would get a ship. If they were lucky, and were able to assimilate the people on board, they would have that ship for as long as it had power (sort of like one of the Star Gate episodes where O'neill gave some primitives his pistol in exchange for Carter)

In fact, I wonder if that is the power level difference between ST and SW.

[PayBack]

The difference is if they assimilate a Starfleet crew along with it, they'll get the knowledge to not only build all the parts for a new ship, but also knowledge on how to tweak and improve on every part in the field. Engineers and design staff at Starfleet construction yards must be pretty poor quality as the ship engineers always seem to be able to modify everything in the field so it's at least 200% more efficient or powerful.

I would suspect with an Imperial ship the crew only know how to run and repair the ship, not build the whole thing from raw materials on up. Another fortunately thing for the Empire, is they've pretty much done all that can be done with the technology and so the Borg (or replicators) would be able to do little to boost too the point where they're more powerful than the originals.

[Solauren]

Do not mention the Replicators in a discussion of Imperial or Borg tech

(Smacks Payback)

[PayBack]

Well it's just that the maxing out of tech I mentioned would affect them even more.. but it didn't warrant it's own thread and I'm sure no one will take the thread off on a tangent

[LordShaithis]

Scenario: The Borg assimilate a World Devastator, which by neccessity SHOULD have information on how to make all sorts of things from scratch. The WD is destroyed in an Imperial counterattack, but not before everything learned from it has become part of the collective.

[Knife]

Scenario: The Borg assimilate a World Devastator, which by neccessity SHOULD have information on how to make all sorts of things from scratch. The WD is destroyed in an Imperial counterattack, but not before everything learned from it has become part of the collective.

Borg may glimpse some insight into adavanced concepts; yet still don't have the infrastructure, industry, resources, or capacity to build tech they got a glimpse of.

Example: take a full set of schematics of a Chevy Camero with you back to the 5th centuary. Hand them over to the smartest mother fucker you can find. Can he build you a Chevy Camero? I think not.

[Stile]

As a fair comparison, let's say that a Eighteenth Century battalion of British soldiers manages to overtake the crew of a modern US destroyer that is somehow stranded in their time period, and let's go further and say that they manage to somehow torture all the useful information from the crew prior to taking complete control of it. Now, they may have some form of working knowledge on how to operate the destroyer, but (assuming they have no access to modern machinery, equipment, fuel, etc. in 18th Century England) they have no ability to build more ships using 18th Century technology, procure more fuel to supply them, replace failing systems within the one "assimilated" ship, etc.

I resemble that remark.
I just got out of the US Navy after 15 years as an electronics technician and I served on a Destroyer for 3 years. Before that I worked at a Naval shipyard for 3 years.
I can tell you for a fact that building a ship and servicing a ship are two different things. As an ET I know how to service a lot of equipment but no way can I design let alone build some of my equipment from scratch.
And I doubt a Gas Turbine Technician could build a jet engine himself...

[LordShaithis]

Example: take a full set of schematics of a Chevy Camero with you back to the 5th centuary. Hand them over to the smartest mother fucker you can find. Can he build you a Chevy Camero? I think not.

Ah, but a World Devastator isn't just a pile of schematics. It's a self-contained industrial base, meant to suck in raw materials and spit out finished starships. Ergo, everything one needs to know in order to go from one to the other must be in there.

By way of comparison, suppose we took your 5th century man on a little tour, of a factory designed to mine it's own iron ore, and finish with automobiles. Not only do we take him on a tour, we show him every single machine and tool and nut and bolt in the entire complex, and tell him exactly what they're all for. We tell him everything, from how we're mining the ore, to what steel is and exactly how we're making it, to how many wheels there are in the conveyor belt that runs from section 472B to section 576C.

Not only does he remember every last insignifigant detail, he can quickly communicate those details to everyone else on earth without losing anything in translation. Furthermore, the human species will immediately abandon art, leisure, warfare, and worship. From now on, it will dedicate every bit of time and energy not occupied by simple survival to one massive collaborative effort to apply this knowledge and build an automobile.

They'll fuck around getting it wrong for a while (couple centuries, maybe?) but you won't be waiting until the 1900's for your Camaro either.

So in conclusion, my position:

The presumably exhaustive technical archives of the Empire's "industrial base in a can" + Borg single-mindedness + a few centuries to fuck off = a civilization as smallish and stupid as the Borg are by Imperial standards, but with more or less SW-level tech.

[Knife]

Example: take a full set of schematics of a Chevy Camero with you back to the 5th centuary. Hand them over to the smartest mother fucker you can find. Can he build you a Chevy Camero? I think not.

Ah, but a World Devastator isn't just a pile of schematics. It's a self-contained industrial base, meant to suck in raw materials and spit out finished starships. Ergo, everything one needs to know in order to go from one to the other must be in there.

By way of comparison, suppose we took your 5th century man on a little tour, of a factory designed to mine it's own iron ore, and finish with automobiles. Not only do we take him on a tour, we show him every single machine and tool and nut and bolt in the entire complex, and tell him exactly what they're all for. We tell him everything, from how we're mining the ore, to what steel is and exactly how we're making it, to how many wheels there are in the conveyor belt that runs from section 472B to section 576C.

Not only does he remember every last insignifigant detail, he can quickly communicate those details to everyone else on earth without losing anything in translation. Furthermore, the human species will immediately abandon art, leisure, warfare, and worship. From now on, it will dedicate every bit of time and energy not occupied by simple survival to one massive collaborative effort to apply this knowledge and build an automobile.

They'll fuck around getting it wrong for a while (couple centuries, maybe?) but you won't be waiting until the 1900's for your Camaro either.

So in conclusion, my position:

The presumably exhaustive technical archives of the Empire's "industrial base in a can" + Borg single-mindedness + a few centuries to fuck off = a civilization as smallish and stupid as the Borg are by Imperial standards, but with more or less SW-level tech.

Got Wank?

Yes, take that guy through Detroit and send him home with his memory. You still won't get your Camero. He can see all the robo arms he wants and yet, 5th centuary tech can not replicate it. Nor can they replicate the microchips in the injectors. Nor can they replicate the tint in the windows and just about every other facet of the constructions.

They may be able to understand the basics underlying the constructions but they do not have the ability to make the resources to make the infrastructure, to make the technology that makes the finished product.

[Ghost Rider]

This is lord shithead's logic in a can.

"Because they saw a microchip from a schematic...they'll be able to make one!!!"

Truly I love the ignorance of some fuckheads.

[RedImperator]

Scenario: The Borg assimilate a World Devastator, which by neccessity SHOULD have information on how to make all sorts of things from scratch. The WD is destroyed in an Imperial counterattack, but not before everything learned from it has become part of the collective.

The World Devestators might be able to manufacture anything, including other World Devestators, from raw materials, but they're still almost certainly packed with specialized equipment and exotic materials that the Borg cannot replicate from their own industrial base. The World Devestator shouldn't include in its memory banks instructions for a Trek-level civilization to bootstrap itself up to Wars level, let alone in enough time to avert defeat in a military conflict with the Empire, which is really what you're asking the Borg to do.

[Koolaidkirby]

i'm really resenting these "its the same as giving an F-18 to the romans, can they build one" comments. Yes, the star wars empire has 25,000 years of tech on the ST forces, but all of their technology is a refinment of the SAME technology that was used 25,000 years ago.

It would be more akin to giving some advanced machine gun from lets say, the year 2100(pulling a year out of my ass), and giving it to a team of engineers in the 1950's or 1940's and telling them to reproduce it. They have an idea of how it would work seeing as its a refinement of a basic technology (a gun) but they wouldn't be able to make the advanced alloys or chemicals needed to make it. But, what they would most likly do, is try to recreate it using the technology that they DO have, seeing as how they know how it works, they just have no idea what its composed of.

I'm fairly sure the borg would *try* (wether they are succesful is open to debate) to do something similar, they would not have acess to the advanced materials or production techniques that the empire has, but they would be able to figure out how it works, and they would more than likly be able to make a more "simple" version of the SW tech.

[Surlethe]

i'm really resenting these "its the same as giving an F-18 to the romans, can they build one" comments. Yes, the star wars empire has 25,000 years of tech on the ST forces, but all of their technology is a refinment of the SAME technology that was used 25,000 years ago.

And the technology Trek uses is a refinement of technology we use today; and technology we use today is really a refinement of technology the ancient Romans used. A gun is really just an advanced rock thrower; however -- and this is key -- this doesn't mean the Romans will understand the mechanism.

It would be more akin to giving some advanced machine gun from lets say, the year 2100(pulling a year out of my ass), and giving it to a team of engineers in the 1950's or 1940's and telling them to reproduce it. They have an idea of how it would work seeing as its a refinement of a basic technology (a gun) but they wouldn't be able to make the advanced alloys or chemicals needed to make it. But, what they would most likly do, is try to recreate it using the technology that they DO have, seeing as how they know how it works, they just have no idea what its composed of.

If you give a warp drive to the modern US government, what makes you think they'd be able to reverse engineer it and build it with our current technology? The warp drive is just another way to go through space, and is thus a refinement to current chemical propulsion technology, but that doesn't mean we will be able to understand it.

[Patrick Degan]

Scenario: The Borg assimilate a World Devastator, which by neccessity SHOULD have information on how to make all sorts of things from scratch. The WD is destroyed in an Imperial counterattack, but not before everything learned from it has become part of the collective.

Would this be before the World Devestator simply uses the attacking Borg ship as raw material for its own processes?

[Batman]

Would this be before the World Devestator simply uses the attacking Borg ship as raw material for its own processes?

Now now. The scenario clearly assumes that due to Plot Device, the Borg ship survives to actually assimilate the World Devastator.
Let's just say 3PO plugged Artoo into the wrong outlet and instead of the garbage masher, he shut down the Devastator.

[LordShaithis]

Got Wank?

Yes, take that guy through Detroit and send him home with his memory.

You keep humping this strawman of a regular guy taking one look at an item and then immediately trying to fabricate one from memory in his house the next day. You're not "taking the guy through Detroit" for a day. You're giving him complete knowledge of the location and purpose of every nut and bolt in every industrial complex from the iron mine to the glass factory, as well as exactly what they're made of, and how those materials were refined. And as soon as he's done absorbing this information, he and every other human being in his world can recall every last bit of it as surely as their own name.

You still won't get your Camero. He can see all the robo arms he wants and yet, 5th centuary tech can not replicate it. Nor can they replicate the microchips in the injectors. Nor can they replicate the tint in the windows and just about every other facet of the constructions.

He now knows every last technical detail of that chip, he knows exactly what it's made of, he knows where those materials come from, he knows how you refined them, and he knows every bit as much as that about every tool used in the entire process. And he can take a million people who all know everything he does, and have them dedicate every waking moment of their lives, and their children's lives, and their grandchildren's lives, and so on down the generations, entire centuries where not one single person stops to smell the flowers, to nothing except working toward an implementation of this knowledge.

They may be able to understand the basics underlying the constructions

No, they now know every single step between "raw ore" and "finished product" in ludicrous detail, and will never forget a single bit of it. They are now essentially 21st century people, stuck with 5th century technology.

but they do not have the ability to make the resources to make the infrastructure, to make the technology that makes the finished product.

So you don't think 16 centuries of technological progress could be squeezed into 2 or 3, given exhaustive instructions, perfect preservation of knowledge, worldwide communication, total cooperation from everyone on earth, and the abandonment of every other human endeavor save for said progress?