Interesting quotes from DS9 "Starship Down"

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Ahem...

[Note: This is all inside a "Class J" Gas Giant with 10 000 kph winds]


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KIRA: There's so much interference our imaging systems are practically useless...
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Gas Giants effect the viewscreen which isn't just a window...


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SISKO: (to Dax) Hold this altitude. (to Worf) Any sign of the Karemma or the Jem'Hadar?
WORF: No, but sensor range is less than two kilometers.
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Gas Giants ruin sensors.

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SISKO: Mister Worf, what's our weapons status?
WORF: The cloak is ineffective inside this atmosphere. And the interference will jam our torpedo guidance systems.
SISKO: What about phasers?
WORF: We'll have to target them manually.
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Gas Giants seriously effect weapons.

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[Note: Sisko isn't being an idiot here by ignoring using phasers, they were knocked out.
O'BRIEN: O'Brien, here.
SISKO: How many atmospheric probes do we have on board?
O'BRIEN: Two.
SISKO: Could they be rigged with warheads from the quantum torpedoes?
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It is confirmed torpedoes can't be used as "dumb" missles.


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46 EXT. ATMOSPHERE (OPTICAL) as the probe arcs up, around, and back over the Defiant, toward the Jem'Hadar right on our tail. The probe hits home and the ship explodes in a FIREBALL.
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Interesting. 1 Quantum torpedo warhead can destroy a Jem'Hadar ship. Or were they damaged?

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56 INT. DEFIANT - ENGINE ROOM
We hear the SOUND of the second torpedo coming closer...
STEVENS: The second one's still closing... range, one hundred meters... seventy-five... fifty...
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Jem'Hadar ships have torpedoes. And they're SLOW (at least in the Gas Giant)


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A beat, then a LOUD metallic thunk that jolts the ship. Everyone tenses up, waiting for the explosion... but nothing happens...
CUT TO:
57 INT. DEFIANT - MESS HALL
on Quark and Hanok, both staring numbly at something off-screen.
58 NEW ANGLE to reveal the nose-cone of a Jem'Hadar TORPEDO sticking through the back wall. Nitrogen streams in from around the perimeter of mangled metal into which the torpedo is jammed.
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Torpedo fails to detonate.

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QUARK: And go where? If that thing explodes, the entire ship will be destroyed.
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Quark thinks one torpedo can destroy the Defiant.

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O'BRIEN: With all due respect, I think you're riding these men a bit too hard. You have to understand, they're out of their element. They're not bridge officers, they didn't go to Starfleet Academy. They're Engineers. They're used to being told to repair something, and figuring out how to do it on their own.
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These engineers didn't go to the Academy, they're enlisted. Strange, since on Voyager and the E-D, most were officers.

[Imperial Officer Miller]

Quark thinks one torpedo can destroy the Defiant.

look at who ur getting the ting from.. its quark.. the dumb ferangi.. he dunno anything about the ship.. and as for him.. i highly doubt he has any knowledge to effectivly make that assumption.

[Ender]

1) a QT exploding inside the ship should kill it. There are no shields and it could damage the warp core. I wouldn't expect anything else
2) The bit from OBrein here contradicts the brain bug from the other thread.
3) So bugs have torpedos now? Everything else I ever saw said it had 6 polaron phaser beams, nothing more.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

1) a QT exploding inside the ship should kill it. There are no shields and it could damage the warp core. I wouldn't expect anything else

It was the outer hull. Though it was Quark who said it. OTOH, Hanok didn't correct him and his planet builds them.

2) The bit from OBrein here contradicts the brain bug from the other thread.

Indeed.

3) So bugs have torpedos now? Everything else I ever saw said it had 6 polaron phaser beams, nothing more.

NOW YOU KNOW

[Ender]

1) a QT exploding inside the ship should kill it. There are no shields and it could damage the warp core. I wouldn't expect anything else

It was the outer hull. Though it was Quark who said it. OTOH, Hanok didn't correct him and his planet builds them.

But the bit from above that says that it is partially buried into the hull. Different torp?

3) So bugs have torpedos now? Everything else I ever saw said it had 6 polaron phaser beams, nothing more.

NOW YOU KNOW

AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!

The other half is Napalm

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

But the bit from above that says that it is partially buried into the hull. Different torp?

Well yeah it's buried in the hull. There's armour and bulkheads.

AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!

The other half is Napalm

Lots of Napalm. And maybe FAE.

[Ender]

But the bit from above that says that it is partially buried into the hull. Different torp?

Well yeah it's buried in the hull. There's armour and bulkheads.

Except it is well established that a proximity explosion from a torp outside the shields can damage a ship. This incicates that the armor isn't too good.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

But the bit from above that says that it is partially buried into the hull. Different torp?

Well yeah it's buried in the hull. There's armour and bulkheads.

Except it is well established that a proximity explosion from a torp outside the shields can damage a ship. This incicates that the armor isn't too good.

I don't think you understand what I said. There's hull between the outside of the ship and inside. So the torpedo could be buried. Plus it is stated later they set up a containment field to deal with the "stress" of the torpedo.

[Ender]

Well yeah it's buried in the hull. There's armour and bulkheads.

Except it is well established that a proximity explosion from a torp outside the shields can damage a ship. This incicates that the armor isn't too good.

I don't think you understand what I said. There's hull between the outside of the ship and inside. So the torpedo could be buried. Plus it is stated later they set up a containment field to deal with the "stress" of the torpedo.

I don't think you understand me either.
You: Torpedo is buried in the hull, but the armor should still help stop it
Me: Series shows that the armor is pathetic and wouldn't stop a thing
You: but there are 2 hulls

My point: So? We already know the armor is crap, and what made the defiant strong was it had double the hull. Now it's down to only one hull, losing that edge. Armor can't hold up to a photon torp outside the shields, how is it going to hold up to a torpedo blast presssed right against it?

[Sea Skimmer]

With Bug's being massed produced by the hundred its possibul that there are several different blocks, some may have torpedoes or where fitted with such on a trial basis. This happens quite a bit for real military vessels.

[Stravo]

Considering the cookie cutter like production of the bugs I have to agree with Sea Skimmer, the Dominion can probably create whole lines of specialty bugs like torpedo ships or scouts.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Hey GAT, do you have DS9 scripts?

If so do you have the episode where there is a changling on Earth and it Odo and Ben have to catch it?

In the episode the power grid of the entire planet is shut down by the changling and the admiral(I think it was an admiral) list the things that are shut down, and he doesn't once mention anything like planetary shields.

[TheDarkling]

ODO
Take down the power relays, and
you neutralize sensors,
transporters, surface-based
defense installations.

Also the distinction between surface based and orbital defense installations imlpies both exist (phaser/photon satellites?).

[AdmiralKanos]

ODO
Take down the power relays, and
you neutralize sensors,
transporters, surface-based
defense installations.

Also the distinction between surface based and orbital defense installations imlpies both exist (phaser/photon satellites?).

What makes you assume that a "defense installation" must be a weapon? NORAD tracking stations are defense installations, remember?

[TheDarkling]

I never said they had to be a weapon, did I? (in fact it was planetary shields we were talking about) but why have C&C buildings in orbit when the planet is a better location for them.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Except it is well established that a proximity explosion from a torp outside the shields can damage a ship. This incicates that the armor isn't too good.

I don't think you understand what I said. There's hull between the outside of the ship and inside. So the torpedo could be buried. Plus it is stated later they set up a containment field to deal with the "stress" of the torpedo.

I don't think you understand me either.
You: Torpedo is buried in the hull, but the armor should still help stop it
Me: Series shows that the armor is pathetic and wouldn't stop a thing
You: but there are 2 hulls

My point: So? We already know the armor is crap, and what made the defiant strong was it had double the hull. Now it's down to only one hull, losing that edge. Armor can't hold up to a photon torp outside the shields, how is it going to hold up to a torpedo blast presssed right against it?

There. You didn't understand me.

Me: One torpedo can destroy an unshielded Defiant.
You: But they said it was lodged into the hull and could have destroyed the inside.
Me: It could have gone through the hull and armour and therefore be lodged.
You: Their armour sucks shit.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Hey GAT, do you have DS9 scripts?

If so do you have the episode where there is a changling on Earth and it Odo and Ben have to catch it?

In the episode the power grid of the entire planet is shut down by the changling and the admiral(I think it was an admiral) list the things that are shut down, and he doesn't once mention anything like planetary shields.

"Homefront"

LEYTON: From what we can tell, Earth's entire power relay system's been knocked off-line. Even Starfleet's emergency backups have been affected.

...

ODO: Take down the power relays, and you neutralize sensors, transporters, surface-based defense installations.
SISKO: In other words, Earth's defenseless.



And just a timbit.

LEYTON: We've been preparing for something like this for a long time. We have stockpiles of phaser rifles, personal forcefields, photon grenades, enough to equip an entire army. I can start placing troops in the streets immediately.


Photon grenades? Similar to Kirk's Mortar? And personal forcefields? Wonder how bulky they are...

[Typhonis 1]

More importantly how long until the batteries on the personal force fields geek?

[Darth Wong]

LEYTON: We've been preparing for something like this for a long time. We have stockpiles of phaser rifles, personal forcefields, photon grenades, enough to equip an entire army. I can start placing troops in the streets immediately.

Photon grenades? Similar to Kirk's Mortar? And personal forcefields? Wonder how bulky they are...

Irrelevant. A proximity explosion will propel the forcefield into the user's body and cause blunt-force injuries even if the forcefield is impregnable. See Newton's Third Law. The smaller the forcefield generator is, the more likely it is to injure its wearer after the first hit.

[Durandal]

ODO: Take down the power relays, and you neutralize sensors, transporters, surface-based defense installations.
SISKO: In other words, Earth's defenseless.

Planetary shields were not included in that list, you'll notice.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Irrelevant. A proximity explosion will propel the forcefield into the user's body and cause blunt-force injuries even if the forcefield is impregnable. See Newton's Third Law. The smaller the forcefield generator is, the more likely it is to injure its wearer after the first hit.

Yeah but it uses a quantum phase varience to recalibrate a tachyon conduit to create a subspace bubble.





And interesting how they weren't shown in the Dominion War. Perhaps another device proved to be an overcomplicated useless piece of shit.

[Ender]

I don't think you understand what I said. There's hull between the outside of the ship and inside. So the torpedo could be buried. Plus it is stated later they set up a containment field to deal with the "stress" of the torpedo.

I don't think you understand me either.
You: Torpedo is buried in the hull, but the armor should still help stop it
Me: Series shows that the armor is pathetic and wouldn't stop a thing
You: but there are 2 hulls

My point: So? We already know the armor is crap, and what made the defiant strong was it had double the hull. Now it's down to only one hull, losing that edge. Armor can't hold up to a photon torp outside the shields, how is it going to hold up to a torpedo blast presssed right against it?

There. You didn't understand me.

Me: One torpedo can destroy an unshielded Defiant.
You: But they said it was lodged into the hull and could have destroyed the inside.
Me: It could have gone through the hull and armour and therefore be lodged.
You: Their armour sucks shit.

You are right, I didn't understand you because we are essentially saying the same thing: that ship is dead if a torp goes off.

[Ted C]

A proximity explosion will propel the forcefield into the user's body and cause blunt-force injuries even if the forcefield is impregnable. See Newton's Third Law. The smaller the forcefield generator is, the more likely it is to injure its wearer after the first hit.

That would be a reason to suspect that such force fields would be effective against energy weapons but not projectiles. Could these things actually be some development built using captured Borg technology (they did, after all, have all of Locutus' old implants for study)?

Still, despite numerous ground engagements in DS9, we never saw anyone actually using one of these things. Could it be that Leyton was actually considering deploying an experimental device? Would Starfleet actually deploy untested equipment like that? (see "New Ground" and "Remember Me")

More reckless stupidity from the Federation...

[Lord Poe]

I never said they had to be a weapon, did I?

Ah, using the tried and true Edam defense, eh? Don't say it directly or absolutely, but strongly imply the hell out of it for the wiggle room...

Also the distinction between surface based and orbital defense installations imlpies both exist (phaser/photon satellites?).

[TheDarkling]

I said Could Be Weapons just like Wong said Could be C&C, I think having weapons in orbit fits far better than floating control centers but since I was only pointing forward what i thought they maybe and not actually trying to state that is what they were my point stands.

Nice little nitpick Poe but you didn't really add anything now did you? I'm sure Wongs more than capable of sticking up for himself and if he didn't pick up on it its either because it was irrelevant or because he just doesn't care.