Which would you rather live in/under?

Long Wang · Post by **Long Wang** » 2002-12-25 12:38pm

Which would be your preferred state/government to live in or under?

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2002-12-25 01:25pm

Old Republic. New republic lacks the control and authority, while the Galactic Empire has too much. Feddies couldn't defend themselves against an invasion of Tribbles, Borg are just mindless drones.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2002-12-25 01:38pm

Galactic Empire. I feel safe and secure with an Imperator cruiser in the system.

Cyaround,
Jason

Captain Kruger · Post by **Captain Kruger** » 2002-12-25 01:57pm

New Republic. I know it's a chaotic mess, but at least they try to balance the democracy of the Old Republic with the kick-our-enemies'-ass mentality of the Empire. And we know the Old Republic didn't work for shit; too de-centralized. Besides, Skywalker's Jedi seem more effective than the head-up-the-ass Old Jedi Order.

The Empire would be a very close second because of its stability, its strength, and the fact that's it's still a thriving capitalist civilization despite being a dictatorship. The downside would be obvious.

Screw the entire ST universe. Our choices are:

1. Tin pot military dictatorships that don't have the slightest shred of individuality among their people, even the same fucking haircut among the Romulans.

2. The pansy-ass Federation, who has been proven to be unable to defeat a planet of teddy bears without the help of screaming Klingons with swords.

By the way, if anyone votes for the Borg, they need to be put out of their misery. Now.

Welcome aboard, Long Wang, HK brother.

Gunner · Post by **Gunner** » 2002-12-25 03:25pm

I'm thinking maybe the UFP. Fully interactive holodeck porn would be hard to beat.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-12-25 03:27pm

Galactic Empire. So I can't be a Jedi. At least I'll have the opportunity to man a HTL or something, blow shit up.

mollusk · Post by **mollusk** » 2002-12-25 03:31pm

Galactic empire. At least id feel safe, plus domination is my thang!

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-12-25 03:32pm

New Republic, so much military equipment lying around, many opportunities for a mercenary life.

McNum · Post by **McNum** » 2002-12-25 07:56pm

Old Republic. Before Palpatine. (But after the previous Sith War).

Relative peace. Plenty of planets to settle on. I'm thinking of settling on Naboo perhaps. That's a nice planet (except for af few gungans, but they won't be much of a nuisance until TPM times).

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-12-25 09:08pm

The Federation couldn't defeat a planet of teddy bears eh?, you know what they say about people in glass houses

The empire is far to close to being Kingdom of the Nazi's.
The OR is far to ineffectual.
The NR protects its people??? I'm going to assume you people haven't read NJO, the NR are worse than the OR and the Empire.

The Feds can defend themselves (against the locals) and do exist until the 31st century, the Fed government seems to be fair and the fed populace seems to live in relative peace.

The other Fed races are all near police states and tend to butt heads with the Feds and lose (except the Borg who get defeated by a single Federation scout).

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-12-25 09:16pm

Pfft the Federation has some of the weirdest ideas of humanity surviving(let's get rid of money except when trading with one alien race?!)

As for me the NR...more than enough stuff lying about that who cares if the government can't do anything...I can more than take care of myself with something Palp has left behind or the Senate has forgotten to catalog.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2002-12-25 09:25pm

I have to point out one consolation to living in the Federation: Risa

Captain Kruger · Post by **Captain Kruger** » 2002-12-25 09:42pm

TheDarkling wrote:The Federation couldn't defeat a planet of teddy bears eh?, you know what they say about people in glass houses

Ah, you'd be referring to Endor, of course. *takes a bow* Point conceeded. But what I was referring to was a full-fledged attempt to beat a planet of teddy bears as the primary objective. The Feds would never hit them from orbit because that would be mean. As for the redshirts, good God would the Ewoks ever own them. Best chance would be, like I said before, send in Klingons with bat'leths and glory on their minds.

Now I think we all know what would have happened had the Empire known about the Ewoks and decided to own their asses.

TheDarkling wrote:The empire is far to close to being Kingdom of the Nazi's.

Eh, somewhat. I really can't see how the UFP is better though. They're even more utilitarian and definitely communist. And most of all, BORING. At least living in the Empire you'd have something called culture.

TheDarkling wrote:The OR is far to ineffectual.

Yep, 100% agreed. That's why I picked the NR.

TheDarkling wrote:The NR protects its people??? I'm going to assume you people haven't read NJO, the NR are worse than the OR and the Empire.

Well, since the Vong would use the UFP to pick their teeth while they considered what WORTHY opponents they wanted to take on, I don't really see your point.

TheDarkling wrote:The Feds can defend themselves (against the locals) and do exist until the 31st century, the Fed government seems to be fair and the fed populace seems to live in relative peace.

"Always in motion is the future." - Yoda
In other words, don't count on that 31st century thing. There's been enough temporal tampering in the ST universe that absolutely nothing about the future can be guaranteed.

As for the Feds adequately defending themselves, that's because they keep fighting people that are just as stupid as they are. The Klingons bring knives to gunfights, the Jem'Hadar know how to do nothing but blitzkrieg, and the Borg's idea of tactics are beneath contempt or description. The only worthy local foe might be the Romulans. Personally I think they would kick Fed ass if it fully came to blows.

TheDarkling wrote:The other Fed races are all near police states and tend to butt heads with the Feds and lose (except the Borg who get defeated by a single Federation scout).

Again, see my previous point.

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2002-12-25 10:23pm

Out of the choices, I'd reluctantly have to go with UFP. NR is too stupid to function properly. The OR dies out and the remenants turn into a dictatorship (Empire). No way in hell would I go for being a drone, nor serve the Dominion. Not much of a choice is there?

meNNis · Post by **meNNis** » 2002-12-25 10:29pm

well, id say NR but only if i could manage to get my hands on a ship with big guns to point at cute lil ewoks and such

otherwise id have to go with the Empire.
One more mindless drone to serve the Empire, coming up! LoL

and all the trek shit..... just.... ugh

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-12-25 10:41pm

Imperial Remnant.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-12-25 10:49pm

Captain Kruger:

UFP may or maynot be communist (no way to be sure) but they arent Communist in the evil pinko's from Moscow way that most people think of when they think communist.

Federation life isn't necessarily boring, I'm sure you could find something to do with your time.

Well first off I have issues with the Vong but since I don't want to hijack the thread I won't comment on Vong Vs Feds here.

Secondly it doesn't really matter if the Feds could take the Vong anymore than it matters if the NR could take on the culture, it only matter if the respective governments can do a good job of defending their people from the threats they encounter, in the case of the Federation they can in the case of the NR they can't.

Well I think its well established that the feds exist in the future but you even agree with my point here (yet can't seem to understand what I'm getting at) who cares if the Feds enemies are all dumb, it doesn't matter since they can still protect their people given who they go up against.

On the Ewok issue, you are correct if the Emperor had known the Ewoks were there I'm sure he would have taken care of them.
Why I bet he would have sent an entire legion of his best troops to deal with them

.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-25 10:52pm

TheDarkling wrote:Why I bet he would have sent an entire legion of his best troops to deal with them .

He would have razed the forest to the ground with heavy weapons. They knew the Ewoks were out there; the scout troopers had obviously seen them before. They just thought they were dumb animals and paid them no mind, that's all. That's overconfidence, not the kind of rank stupidity that leads a civilization with thousands of cubes to send just one at a time against a target they're interested in, or "warriors" to throw down their guns and charge screaming at their opponents with knives in hand.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-12-25 10:57pm

You know Wong I knew you would pop up, you know those jokes where animals talk, do you always walk upto the person after they finish the joke and say "animals can't talk yadda yadda yadda" because it sure seems like you MO.

SWPIGWANG · Post by **SWPIGWANG** » 2002-12-25 11:01pm

There is actually much to do in the Federation, unlike a largely technologically stangnated SWverse

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-25 11:02pm

Well, excuuuuuuse me for commenting on your attempt to paint the Imperial non-response to the Ewoks as stupidity comparable to that of the Feds' enemies. I guess if you put a smiley after every dumb thing you say, no one's allowed to comment, right? Even though we know you seriously believe it from other threads and posts?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-12-25 11:18pm

Maybe if you took a little more time to read posts you wouldn't make mistakes Wong, I wasn't comparing the stupidity of the empire to the Federations enemies at all, if you had read my post and those it was in response to you would understand.

However allow me to help you.

Captain Kruger Makes a comment on the Feds not being able to handle a planet of teddy bears.
I respond with a wry comment refering to Endor aswell as actual factual elements on the main subject at hand.
Captain Kruger returns reponse to my factual elements (including the stupidity of the Feds enemies).
He also tries to justify his comment about the Feds (not really necessary since I assume he was simply commenting on the Feds defense abilities and not actually whether they could defeat teddy bears (unless he really thinks that but that wasn't the impression I got)) and why the empire could have handled the Ewoks.
I respond to his factual elements (including comments on the Feds enemies) and also insert a joke about the empire Vs Ewoks, there is no link between the two, maybe you rushed reading the thread and made a mistake however you will continue to infer a link I'm sure in order to save face (since making a simple error would be such a big deal

).

Oh and while I appreciate your veal in always responding to my posts (do you have a little red light and siren that go off when I post?) you could take a little more care in order to avoid these errors in future (it is partly my fault for not using quotes but the thread wasn't that involved, I do however understand it cuold be differcult to follow, especially for someone entering into the middle of the thread in a rush).

Captain Kruger · Post by **Captain Kruger** » 2002-12-25 11:47pm

Hmm, I seem to have stepped into another Darkling/Wong war...*ducks to stay out of the line of fire*

On to the points...

No, I don't LITERALLY think the Ewoks could clobber an Away Team, that was a bit of an exaggeration. But the redshirts would probably take more casualties than the stormies did. It's like this = Ewok drops a rock on a stormie's helmet, stormie gets knocked out. Ewok drops a rock on a redshirt's head...*response censored for graphic violence*. Plus stormies are better shots.

The UFP is at the very least a form of socialism, which could NEVER have the standard of living of a capitalist state. I agree that it's nicer than the USSR but I'm not sure by how much.

"it only matter if the respective governments can do a good job of defending their people from the threats they encounter, in the case of the Federation they can in the case of the NR they can't."

Your logic escapes me. Try this on for size...

Suppose China becomes the uber-superpower over the next 20 years. The US goes to war with them and we get our asses kicked thoroughly.

In the meantime, Iraq fights a few wars against several of their Middle Eastern neighbors at the same time and reigns victorious easily against all of them.

So, by your thinking, "it only matter if the respective governments can do a good job of defending their people from the threats they encounter, in the case of IRAQ they can in the case of the UNITED STATES they can't."

I take it you get my point. Your statement doesn't make sense when you figure that any foe that gives the NR so much as a headache could walk over the UFP with a single taskforce.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-12-26 12:03am

Captain Kruger:
Well I disagree about Socialism not having a high standard of living compared with capitalist setups in rl however in Trek we also have the added factor of the replicator to consider, remember th OR was capitalist yet had Refugees and very poor people yet the Feds don't (at least from what we see).

I will try and explain it a different way The Feds can defend against their enemies so their people are safe, the NR can't protect their people against their enemies so they aren't.

Its like saying the Roman emipre at its height wasn't the king of the hill because the British empire at its height would have owned it - it doesn't matter since Rome could handle the enemies it had and didn't have to contend with the British empire.

Since we are picking these governments and one factor is how safe we would be the answer is - With the feds we will would be safe because they can protect us from the Romulans,Klingons etc yet with the NR we won't because they can't protect us from the Vong.

Whether the Feds can handle the Vong doesn't matter snce the Feds won't come up against the Vong meaning the only thing of relevance is the comparitive defense strenght between the government(s) we are choosing and their foes - the Feds can protect against the threats they face the NR can't protect against the treats to their people.

Captain Kruger · Post by **Captain Kruger** » 2002-12-26 12:15am

Good point on Romans v. British...but this is a bit different. The Vong are not from either the ST or SW galaxy. They came to the SW galaxy. They could just as easily pay a visit to the Milky Way.

But, if you'd feel comfy in the UFP, more power to ya. I'd be happy to cheer you while you kicked Cardassian ass.