Sith Lord vs. Q

Darth_Nader · Post by **Darth_Nader** » 2002-12-26 07:11pm

if the Q can be killed and it is a fact, then why cant a Sith Lord do it? couldnt a Sith Lord drain the essence or life essence of a Q. If you whant to see all of the abilities of a Sith Lord go to http://www.angelfire.com/ks2//newsithem ... tmike.html but for now here are some abilities on what a Sith Lord can do.

Krath Space/Time Control: can send ones self into another place in space along time, and return.
Transfer Life: can transfer own life into a speciall prepared clone host body, a recently dead body or a live willing host.
Create Force Storms: can create a force storm that spans 100 meters to 1 km in size.
Create Force Lightning: can kill a Jedi equal to or below the rank of Dark side Master.
Transfer Force: can spare a mortally wounded willing from death.
Doppelganger: can create a doppelganger that can utilise powers to half their usual effect.
Return another to Consciousness: can keep someone conscious up to three minutes past death.
Drain Life Essence: can drain the life essence of 1-50,000 victims.
Rage: complete anger and will to win at any costs.
Warp Matter: can reshape very dense solids (hulls,Reinforced walls,etc.)

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-12-26 07:17pm

Q is either a ominpotent Being who can simply srink the Sith lord to size and step on him... OR A Faker with increably powerful mind control abilites who can make the Sith Lord poke himself to death

Q wins either way

Darth_Nader · Post by **Darth_Nader** » 2002-12-26 07:30pm

either way you can never kill a Sith Lord because he has the ability to transfer his life into another host and so on. And still use his full abilities of the Sith, so eihter way its a draw in a sense.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2002-12-26 07:43pm

Darth_Nader wrote:either way you can never kill a Sith Lord because he has the ability to transfer his life into another host and so on. And still use his full abilities of the Sith, so eihter way its a draw in a sense.

IIRC life essense transfers are difficult for Sith Lords to do. Also Q level of power easily out classes all but the most powerful of Sith Lords.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2002-12-26 08:19pm

Siths are powerful and all, but still lose to nearly omni-potent being(s).

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-12-26 08:19pm

It's difficult to perform Life Transfer and actually very desperate except in controlled circumstances. It almost always fails if the potential host is not brain-dead or in coma. Preferably a mindless clone works best with preparation.

Palpatine got good at it; he was able to transfer his spirit across thousands of light-years twice--once after dying aboard the Death Star II when he transfered himself into the Emperor's Hand Jeng Droga nearby in the Outer Rim and later after he was incinerated aboard the Eclipse in Hutt Space when he transfered to a clone on Byss.

However, even Palpatine wasn't perfect: transfering into Jeng Droga nearly dispersed his consciousness, it weakened him greatly, and it drove Droga insane, leaving Palpatine trapped in an insane man's body for a year until Sate Pestage found him. His Life Transfer ability was also diverted by Jedi Knight Empatojayos Brand on Onderon.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2002-12-31 10:11pm

Not long ago we had a Vader vs. Q thread, as much as it sucks to say it....

Q is basically omnipotent and unless it can be proven that they are part of the force then a Jedi or Sith can't touch them.

I think the only reason Q was developed was so that when sweeps rolled around or when the writers were braincramped beyond belief they could come up with anything they wanted and not have to recycle 14 syllable treknobabble.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-01 03:38am

Prove that Q is omnipotent.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-01-01 03:43am

Darth Wong wrote:Prove that Q is omnipotent.

He doesn't have to be, he can still do some really wacky shit to any Jedi/Sith regardless.

Although I beilieve there is a episode of Voyager where Q's kid states that they are in fact not omnipotent, and are just really advanced. Can anybody verify that?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-01 03:51am

What can Q really do? Most of what he's done can be explained with telepathy and illusions, neither of which are guaranteed to work on a Sith Lord.

I normally don't bother contesting the "Q is omnipotent" claims of Trekkies because I figure it's not worth the bother, but honestly, I find it fascinating that there's an episode of TNG where some con artist pretends to be "Ardra" and has virtually the entire crew convinced that she's a god until Picard figures her out, while Q does a lot of the same tricks and the entire crew (plus fans) is convinced that he's a god.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-01-01 04:17am

If I'm not mistaken he can teleport himself/others anyplace he likes. He can create the illusion he's anybody. He's never really shown any violent tendencies, so I don't think we are aware of the full extent of hsi abilities.

Still, nothing will kill a Jedi like tossing him out in space.

Treebeard · Post by **Treebeard** » 2003-01-01 04:24am

Q would have the ability to stop any Sith Lord from ever being born or go back in time if he has to, and kill the younger version of the Sith Lord he is fighting. it may not be fair but it'll get the job done.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-01-01 04:26am

Maybe, maybe not....from what I've gathered here time-travel cannot even work...Also *arms RPP-Rocket Propelled Poke* POKE!!!!!!

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-01-01 04:38am

It is true that we can't prove Q is omnipotent but based on some of the things he has done it would be hard to go against that. If it were an illusion or some kind of trick then its a damn good one.

But if a Q is truly a living being then it must have some connection to the force, and a powerful Sith Lord should be able to sever that connection. Maybe not as brutal as the "Vader Choke" but maybe something more subtle like Gethzerion using the dark side to destroy all the blood vessels in Luke's Brain (Courtship of Princess Leia)

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-01-01 04:45am

Maybe, maybe not. Q may have a way of 'repelling' the Force (see ysalamiri), through some sort of advanced technology? Or maybe the very damn animal itself! After all who's to say Q, omnipotent or not, wouldn't be all-knowing?

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2003-01-01 11:26am

Some demonstrated powers of the Q:

1. The ability to transport individuals and even large groups through conventional Trek shields and over (potentially) long distances, as well as through time. The patterns of those transported can apparently be held in storage for considerable periods of time, and those patterns can also be modified or changed. Something like a (canon) subspace transporter, albeit one not inflicting cellular damage, linked to a high capacity pattern buffer, a quantum-level replicator system and a chronoton source could simulate those effects through the simple fusion of various forms of canon treknobabble. Judicious use of the system could even simulate the resurrection of the dead child as performed by Riker when he was granted Q powers: the system scans back in time to when the child was still alive, copies the pattern, and replaces the dead child's pattern with that of the living one.

2. The ability to make ships travel incredible distances as well as back and forth through time. The Traveller had very similar abilities, as do the future timeships of the Federation, Barclay (as enhanced temporarily by an alien probe) was able to kitbash a similar system for distance travel, and the Defiant managed to (temporarily) wipe out the entire Federation timeline through a bit of uncontrolled time travel. The ability to take a vessel along for the ride would be conceptually similar to a Federation starship using its warp field and a tractor beam to tow a vessel normally limited to STL travel at FTL speeds.

3. The ability to create complex, self-sustaining scenarios indistinguishable from reality. An advanced holodeck system without lethality safeguards would do the same.

4. The ability to alter the gravitational constant of the universe. As it turns out, the Enterprise-D can simulate that effect over a small area, so that it becomes not much more than a matter of scale. Can a Q carry out that change for the entire universe, or is the effect limited to a particular area? If the effect is limited to a particular area, then it is not a sign of omnipotence.

5. The ability to capture an alien starship and hold it in one's hand. A bit of treknobabble based on canon Trek capabilities can answer that one. The high capacity transporter transports the entire vessel into the high capacity pattern buffer. The handheld starship then becomes either: 1) a GUI that allows the holder to communicate with and manipulate the patterns of the ship and crew, which can continue to run real-time inside the pattern buffer; or 2) an interface allowing the holder to interact with the ship which has been transported into a handy subspace pocket (or static warp bubble).

6. Picking persons, events and creatures from the personal history of an individual and recreating these. Judicious use of advanced holodeck technology and hacking into the personal files of the individual in question should in most cases be adequate, especially if the files are used to guide a quick scan of the time and place in question.

7. The ability to stand on the outer hull of the Enterprise-D or get stuck in a comet without suffering damage. The Q are sufficiently humanoid, at least in the forms they are commonly encountered in, to interbreed with humans, but since Borg drones derived directly from humans can walk around on starship hulls without too much trouble and without benefit of spacesuits, that Q ability shows no hugely advanced abilities.

8. The ability to reach through and walk through solid surfaces. Ro Laren and Geordie LaForge did that, though with no control and inadequate interface with the regular world, not to mention the fact that subspace aliens, alien sociologists, as well as Delta Quadrant aliens and alien bugs, used roughly analogous phasing and/or subspace techniques to do work, even to implant/attach themselves and devices to humans. That particular Q ability is not that impressive in that light.

9. The ability to kill other Q and, in the course of that combat, to blow up stars as collateral damage. This ability apparently requires actual weaponry, which can be used perfectly well by humans. It is not clear that the anti-personnel/anti-Q weapons are in fact responsible for the stellar explosions, so that heavier, military-grade weapons may be the culprits.

Overall, the Q appear to be extremely powerful beings, but their powers also appear to be subject to considerable limits. My own pet hypothesis is that the Q are critters with a substantial natural (or genetically engineered) subspace presence. In that regard they would be not particularly different from advanced Ocampa. That presence allows the Q to be identified by those sensitive to such odd things, like Guinan, and also allows the Q to assume odd physical shapes without losing their mental faculties, their minds essentially continuing to work in a subspace pocket. That presence also allows the Q to put themselves partially or wholly out of phase with their surroundings in the treknobabble sense, in which case judicious application of that ability would allow them to endure exposure to open space without harm. Similarly, since subspace treknobabble can affect both space and time, limited control of such effects is likely possible for Q even without access to machines to aid them.

The greater abilities of Q may derive from their personal conveyances, the familiar high energy ball/sheet, which can disappear completely into subspace when desired. Using these, and these are almost certainly personalized to fit the individual Q, possibly as a coming-of-age gift analogous to a car, Q can then amplify their innate abilities and add a few more.

Cutting a Q off from his or her abilities would therefore be a matter of 1) isolating the Q from the Q's own subspace presence or using treknobabble to "push" that presence into the regular world, and 2) severing the command links to the Q's personal conveyance.

Killing a Q, especially a mature one with a conveyance, would require either complete surprise (and result in a revesible death based on the time travel cop-out), or fairly specialized weaponry that penetrates the protection of the conveyance and the Q, catastrophically disrupts the Q's physical and subspace presence, and then sends a treknobabble smart chronoton pulse back through the Q's life timeline to prevent reconstitution of the Q.

None of the demonstrated canon abilities of the Q, at least those that I am aware of, are beyond reasonable developments of canon technologies that the Federation in the TNG/DSO/Voyager eras has available to it or is at least aware of.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-01 02:12pm

Patrick Ogaard wrote:Some demonstrated powers of the Q:

1. The ability to transport individuals and even large groups through conventional Trek shields and over (potentially) long distances, as well as through time.

Or create the illusion thereof. How do you know he's actually doing this?

2. The ability to make ships travel incredible distances as well as back and forth through time.

He never made a ship travel back and forth through time. The time-jumping in "All Good Things" could have all been in Picard's head. The episode where he got another chance to change his youth DEFINITELY took place all in Picard's head, as he was physically laying on a gurney the whole time (which, to me, proves that Q is playing mind-games).

3. The ability to create complex, self-sustaining scenarios indistinguishable from reality. An advanced holodeck system without lethality safeguards would do the same.

I concur. This capability is why I doubt the veracity of the first two.

4. The ability to alter the gravitational constant of the universe. As it turns out, the Enterprise-D can simulate that effect over a small area, so that it becomes not much more than a matter of scale. Can a Q carry out that change for the entire universe, or is the effect limited to a particular area? If the effect is limited to a particular area, then it is not a sign of omnipotence.

Since the consequences of a change in that constant would be disastrous for all life in the universe, he's obviously either bullshitting or he doesn't entirely understand what he's saying. The universal gravitational constant is tied to so many other aspects of physics that for the brief moment that it was significantly altered, life would cease to function.

5. The ability to capture an alien starship and hold it in one's hand. A bit of treknobabble based on canon Trek capabilities can answer that one. The high capacity transporter transports the entire vessel into the high capacity pattern buffer. The handheld starship then becomes either: 1) a GUI that allows the holder to communicate with and manipulate the patterns of the ship and crew, which can continue to run real-time inside the pattern buffer; or 2) an interface allowing the holder to interact with the ship which has been transported into a handy subspace pocket (or static warp bubble).

When did he do that? He did it to a cloud of glowing stuff, but we don't even know what that was.

6. Picking persons, events and creatures from the personal history of an individual and recreating these. Judicious use of advanced holodeck technology and hacking into the personal files of the individual in question should in most cases be adequate, especially if the files are used to guide a quick scan of the time and place in question.

Again, this one I consider a no-brainer.

7. The ability to stand on the outer hull of the Enterprise-D or get stuck in a comet without suffering damage. The Q are sufficiently humanoid, at least in the forms they are commonly encountered in, to interbreed with humans, but since Borg drones derived directly from humans can walk around on starship hulls without too much trouble and without benefit of spacesuits, that Q ability shows no hugely advanced abilities.

Indeed, he may only be projecting some sort of hologram.

8. The ability to reach through and walk through solid surfaces. Ro Laren and Geordie LaForge did that, though with no control and inadequate interface with the regular world, not to mention the fact that subspace aliens, alien sociologists, as well as Delta Quadrant aliens and alien bugs, used roughly analogous phasing and/or subspace techniques to do work, even to implant/attach themselves and devices to humans. That particular Q ability is not that impressive in that light.

9. The ability to kill other Q and, in the course of that combat, to blow up stars as collateral damage. This ability apparently requires actual weaponry, which can be used perfectly well by humans. It is not clear that the anti-personnel/anti-Q weapons are in fact responsible for the stellar explosions, so that heavier, military-grade weapons may be the culprits.

He may also be bullshitting. If the real universe is affected by events in the Q continuum (which it would have to be, for the stars to blow up from weapon discharges in the Q continuum), it stands to reason that the Q continuum is affected by events in the real universe. Since we've seen the Q continuum and observed that the discharge of weapons does not even kill ordinary humans once there, it seems more likely that the larger release of energy is here, not there. They may be using some kind of supernova weapons to cause a huge energy release here in order to inflict area-effect damage in the Q continuum.

Overall, the Q appear to be extremely powerful beings, but their powers also appear to be subject to considerable limits. My own pet hypothesis is that the Q are critters with a substantial natural (or genetically engineered) subspace presence. In that regard they would be not particularly different from advanced Ocampa. That presence allows the Q to be identified by those sensitive to such odd things, like Guinan, and also allows the Q to assume odd physical shapes without losing their mental faculties, their minds essentially continuing to work in a subspace pocket. That presence also allows the Q to put themselves partially or wholly out of phase with their surroundings in the treknobabble sense, in which case judicious application of that ability would allow them to endure exposure to open space without harm. Similarly, since subspace treknobabble can affect both space and time, limited control of such effects is likely possible for Q even without access to machines to aid them.

The fact that the Q's abilities can be taken away from them indicates that they are external to them, not integral to them. They may be wholly technological in nature, and it is entirely possible that if someone were to discover the source of their power and destroy it, that they would become helpless.

The greater abilities of Q may derive from their personal conveyances, the familiar high energy ball/sheet, which can disappear completely into subspace when desired. Using these, and these are almost certainly personalized to fit the individual Q, possibly as a coming-of-age gift analogous to a car, Q can then amplify their innate abilities and add a few more.

Interesting idea.

Cutting a Q off from his or her abilities would therefore be a matter of 1) isolating the Q from the Q's own subspace presence or using treknobabble to "push" that presence into the regular world, and 2) severing the command links to the Q's personal conveyance.

Killing a Q, especially a mature one with a conveyance, would require either complete surprise (and result in a revesible death based on the time travel cop-out), or fairly specialized weaponry that penetrates the protection of the conveyance and the Q, catastrophically disrupts the Q's physical and subspace presence, and then sends a treknobabble smart chronoton pulse back through the Q's life timeline to prevent reconstitution of the Q.

Time-travel should not be invoked so easily. The Q have never used time-travel to undo their mistakes, and we know how embarrassed they have been by Q's antics.

None of the demonstrated canon abilities of the Q, at least those that I am aware of, are beyond reasonable developments of canon technologies that the Federation in the TNG/DSO/Voyager eras has available to it or is at least aware of.

Agreed. Try telling that to the Trekkies who assume that mysterious abilities = omnipotence.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-01-01 02:35pm

A Q, not Q Q another Q, (try saying that quickly

) once misplaced an asteroid belt, as they are speaking to each other at this time I see no reason for them to be lying.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-01-01 02:39pm

I think the ending of a ship through time was Quin (the Q who wanted to die) he sent Voyager back to start of the universe, he made the ship the size of a christmas tree baubel and placed it on a christmas tree and the large distances would be sending Picard and Co to the Borg and Quin moving the ship about running from Q.

On the moving people issue, Q moved Picard to a shuttle then moved the shuttle off the ship know having Picard fooled by some illusion is fair enough but it would also have to include the people back on the Enterprise aswell (since they noticed the shuttle was gone, Troi sensed Picard was missing, the computer reported both as missing etc).

We also know that Q2 picked up a Borg and moved him to Voyager and Q had a go at him about it, if it were simlpy an illusion then there was no point to tell his boy off.

What about when Amanda (the sort of Q) cleared all the polution from the atmosphere of that planet with a simple wave of her hand (or it could have been a finger click - I forget which) if that were an illusion it would be pretty hard (an entire planet of people plus the fact that the polution wuold affect there health as it did before the illusion, theres also the fact she stopped a reactor or something going critical - if this was an illusion then that means Geordi and Riker have been simulations for about 5 years now aswell as the other people who should have been caught in the blast).

Its obvious the Q's powers extend beyond simlpy illusion althuogh Illusion may be the staple of their powers the do possess abilities above and beyond that (which doesn't seem to be tech based).

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-01-01 02:48pm

A big huge accurate transporter could deal with the polloution.

The Prime Necromancer · Post by **The Prime Necromancer** » 2003-01-01 03:01pm

My pet peeve is the frequent claim that the Q's are omnipotent. Either people don't understand the meaning of omnipotence, or they're total fanboys. Even if you ignore the logical problems of having *one* omnipotent, having multiple omnipotents makes even less sense. We also have that rogue Q's testimony about how the Q aren't omnipotent and that they just want others to believe that. And, the fact that they use weapons at all shows that they *do* use technology, and that their powers may have more to do with advanced tech than anything else.

In regards to the thread, I still believe a Q could kill a Sith pretty easily if it really wanted to. But I'm only 99.9% sure.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-01-01 03:01pm

A very very huge one could I suppose, same with the asteroid field but when you start transporting material that big you begin to enter a realm where the tech and power requirements would be amazing.

I also suppose its possible that the Q were slowly hooking Amanda (that was her name right?) upto to the tech that gives her powers without her knowledge thus any tech they use is more like a "power"m to them since they don't actually require to think about the mechnics of it they just click their fingers.

We also know they Q have some limited ability to see the future (since Quin brought about physics by dropping the apple on Newtons head) we also know that he allowed Riker to be born however this doesn't really display that since theres no way to nkow if he saved Rikers great great etc whatever for that reason.

While this may not show a proper ability to see the future it may be more along the lines of they have good predictive abilities (I know Newton is like this so I expose him to the apple and this will happen), of course he may have just imlpanted the ideas in Newtons head.

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2003-01-01 03:32pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Patrick Ogaard wrote:Some demonstrated powers of the Q:

1. The ability to transport individuals and even large groups through conventional Trek shields and over (potentially) long distances, as well as through time.
Or create the illusion thereof. How do you know he's actually doing this?

My list assumes an unrealistically generous lack of lying and BS on the part of the Q. That assumption inflates the powers of the Q and still does not edge them into actual omnipotence.
As examples, the subspace transporters that terrorists used to board the Ent-D despite countermeasures had no trouble with shields, Daimon Bok's long range holotransmitter and transporters had no problems with countermeasures or even detection, and some Dominion transporters have multi-lightyear ranges. Further development of those concepts would allow for most of the Q tricks. After all, even ordinary Federation transporters are quite capable of serving as transport into parallel universes and different times, though not always intentionally.

2. The ability to make ships travel incredible distances as well as back and forth through time.
He never made a ship travel back and forth through time. The time-jumping in "All Good Things" could have all been in Picard's head. The episode where he got another chance to change his youth DEFINITELY took place all in Picard's head, as he was physically laying on a gurney the whole time (which, to me, proves that Q is playing mind-games).

The time jumping thing would have been the suicidal Q, in a forgettable Voyager episodes that involved the Q taking the Voyager on the run through time to try to get away from DeLancie's Q. Your examples are, of course, almost certainly just plain old BS and mind games.

4. The ability to alter the gravitational constant of the universe. As it turns out, the Enterprise-D can simulate that effect over a small area, so that it becomes not much more than a matter of scale. Can a Q carry out that change for the entire universe, or is the effect limited to a particular area? If the effect is limited to a particular area, then it is not a sign of omnipotence.
Since the consequences of a change in that constant would be disastrous for all life in the universe, he's obviously either bullshitting or he doesn't entirely understand what he's saying. The universal gravitational constant is tied to so many other aspects of physics that for the brief moment that it was significantly altered, life would cease to function.

Well, true enough. My own impression is that Q are generally like a regular end users of technology, most of them having no real understanding of how it works.

5. The ability to capture an alien starship and hold it in one's hand. A bit of treknobabble based on canon Trek capabilities can answer that one. The high capacity transporter transports the entire vessel into the high capacity pattern buffer. The handheld starship then becomes either: 1) a GUI that allows the holder to communicate with and manipulate the patterns of the ship and crew, which can continue to run real-time inside the pattern buffer; or 2) an interface allowing the holder to interact with the ship which has been transported into a handy subspace pocket (or static warp bubble).
When did he do that? He did it to a cloud of glowing stuff, but we don't even know what that was.

The glowing cloud was supposed to be an alien starship (or something similar), out hunting for the Q that had played nasty games with them. It's not a hugely important point, however, since showmanship and technological BS can combine to produce the same effects.

7. The ability to stand on the outer hull of the Enterprise-D or get stuck in a comet without suffering damage. The Q are sufficiently humanoid, at least in the forms they are commonly encountered in, to interbreed with humans, but since Borg drones derived directly from humans can walk around on starship hulls without too much trouble and without benefit of spacesuits, that Q ability shows no hugely advanced abilities.
Indeed, he may only be projecting some sort of hologram.

That's definitely another possibility. Sort of a Voyager doctor projection with full telepresence feedback.

8. The ability to reach through and walk through solid surfaces. Ro Laren and Geordie LaForge did that, though with no control and inadequate interface with the regular world, not to mention the fact that subspace aliens, alien sociologists, as well as Delta Quadrant aliens and alien bugs, used roughly analogous phasing and/or subspace techniques to do work, even to implant/attach themselves and devices to humans. That particular Q ability is not that impressive in that light.

9. The ability to kill other Q and, in the course of that combat, to blow up stars as collateral damage. This ability apparently requires actual weaponry, which can be used perfectly well by humans. It is not clear that the anti-personnel/anti-Q weapons are in fact responsible for the stellar explosions, so that heavier, military-grade weapons may be the culprits.
He may also be bullshitting. If the real universe is affected by events in the Q continuum (which it would have to be, for the stars to blow up from weapon discharges in the Q continuum), it stands to reason that the Q continuum is affected by events in the real universe. Since we've seen the Q continuum and observed that the discharge of weapons does not even kill ordinary humans once there, it seems more likely that the larger release of energy is here, not there. They may be using some kind of supernova weapons to cause a huge energy release here in order to inflict area-effect damage in the Q continuum.

That Q is BSing big-time is almost certain. One possibility that just popped into my brain, and that is almost worthy of Trekdom, is the following: perhaps the Q, when they created their little Continuum utopia -- which might be not much more than a stable version of the infamous static warp bubble -- built in some safeguards both against attack from outside and internal fighting. Those safeguards could require the expenditure of ridiculous amounts of energy to achieve damaging effects on other inhabitants. A military-grade heavy weapon capable of producing an area effect might require such high energy levels that the thrifty Q just tap the fusion power of a stellar core to fuel their shots. I seem to recall the civil war episode included cannon fire in the distance, and that cannon fire was likely representative of those sorts of big guns. That would tend to fit in with your supposition.

Overall, the Q appear to be extremely powerful beings, but their powers also appear to be subject to considerable limits. My own pet hypothesis is that the Q are critters with a substantial natural (or genetically engineered) subspace presence. In that regard they would be not particularly different from advanced Ocampa. That presence allows the Q to be identified by those sensitive to such odd things, like Guinan, and also allows the Q to assume odd physical shapes without losing their mental faculties, their minds essentially continuing to work in a subspace pocket. That presence also allows the Q to put themselves partially or wholly out of phase with their surroundings in the treknobabble sense, in which case judicious application of that ability would allow them to endure exposure to open space without harm. Similarly, since subspace treknobabble can affect both space and time, limited control of such effects is likely possible for Q even without access to machines to aid them.
The fact that the Q's abilities can be taken away from them indicates that they are external to them, not integral to them. They may be wholly technological in nature, and it is entirely possible that if someone were to discover the source of their power and destroy it, that they would become helpless.

Some of the powers of the Q are probably innate, like those initially displayed by Amanda Rogers in True Q. Innate in this context could, of course, mean something as treknobabblish as the transfer of subspace nanites on conception. My own impression is that the ultimate source of the Q powers is the Continuum itself, their little inviolate fortress of solitude from which the Q sally forth when bored. It might be interesting to see the Q suddenly reduced to the status of little more than long-lived versions of the Ocampa, forced to rely on their limited innate abilities.

The greater abilities of Q may derive from their personal conveyances, the familiar high energy ball/sheet, which can disappear completely into subspace when desired. Using these, and these are almost certainly personalized to fit the individual Q, possibly as a coming-of-age gift analogous to a car, Q can then amplify their innate abilities and add a few more.
Interesting idea.

Thanks.

Cutting a Q off from his or her abilities would therefore be a matter of 1) isolating the Q from the Q's own subspace presence or using treknobabble to "push" that presence into the regular world, and 2) severing the command links to the Q's personal conveyance.

Killing a Q, especially a mature one with a conveyance, would require either complete surprise (and result in a revesible death based on the time travel cop-out), or fairly specialized weaponry that penetrates the protection of the conveyance and the Q, catastrophically disrupts the Q's physical and subspace presence, and then sends a treknobabble smart chronoton pulse back through the Q's life timeline to prevent reconstitution of the Q.
Time-travel should not be invoked so easily. The Q have never used time-travel to undo their mistakes, and we know how embarrassed they have been by Q's antics.

True enough. The Q either routinely engage in time travel or just outright fake it. I'm not wedded to the time travel aspect.

None of the demonstrated canon abilities of the Q, at least those that I am aware of, are beyond reasonable developments of canon technologies that the Federation in the TNG/DSO/Voyager eras has available to it or is at least aware of.
Agreed. Try telling that to the Trekkies who assume that mysterious abilities = omnipotence.

Well, it is the easier route to take, to simply assume that mysterious abilities = omnipotence.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-01-01 09:12pm

I'd still say nobody wins the match. The Sith Lord is destroyed, but the Q misses Wheel of Fortune.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-01-02 12:02am

Darth Wong wrote:What can Q really do? Most of what he's done can be explained with telepathy and illusions,

This argument smells a lot like the shuffle that rabid Fivers do when their firepower calcs aren't large enough. While the Q haven't done much of anything that couldn't be duplicated with sufficiently advanced technology (most of the Q's miracles would be trivial to the Culture, for instance) the same goes for the antics of the Jedi and Sith. The matter of the power of the Q ultimately boils down to if one is prepared to accept what is shown on screen at face value or if one is willing to pull an Adarx and repeatedly reinterpret impressions, hints, and vague descriptions to reduce the Q to something less than what they appear to be at first glance.