The Deflectors are immune b.s.

Sr.mal · Post by **Sr.mal** » 2002-12-27 01:31am

Think about this. A laser is merely amplified light. Since light is electromagnetic radiation ( a form of it) would the nav deflectors be immune to that as well? If so then wouldn't every trek ship be crashing into stuff since it would also block their sensors creating a massive blindspot in front of the ship. Seems like their argument about nav deflectors being immune to Tls (absolute bullshit) would be moot becouse they would crash into the ISD never knowing it was there.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-27 01:36am

There are countless ways to demolish that idiotic argument. I like GK's excuse (he thinks the ship becomes transparent to lasers, so they pass harmlessly through, and he dismisses all examples of lasers and light not passing through the ship by waving his hands furiously and trying to distract you).

Sr.mal · Post by **Sr.mal** » 2002-12-27 01:40am

I'm new at this so I was just trying to use logic. To me it seems obvious that DEFLECTORS are meant to deflect things away, like dust, asteriods etc to prevent the high speed impact of objects on the ship. So if it is "immune" (also utter bullshit) to lasers it would deflect them away, along with the sensor returns. Like like putting a sound absorbing barrier infront of the sonar detectors.

Sr.mal · Post by **Sr.mal** » 2002-12-27 01:40am

Then again it could just be me relying too much upon terminology than observations otherwise.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2002-12-27 02:05am

I first heard this argument when I was taking a tour of Egypt and witnessed the pyramids being constructed. Those pyramids are now dust and still I hear of it. Word gets around slow.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-12-27 07:44am

Darth Wong wrote:There are countless ways to demolish that idiotic argument. I like GK's excuse (he thinks the ship becomes transparent to lasers, so they pass harmlessly through, and he dismisses all examples of lasers and light not passing through the ship by waving his hands furiously and trying to distract you).

What!?!

Brain begining to swell must stop explosion.

Jeez, I am glad I've not bothered to even try and read any of his crap. That is just stupid. I least he could come up with a Treknobable reason but that?

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2002-12-27 09:08am

GK wrote:The navigation shields also posses another intriguing property; they are immune to attack from laser weaponry. This is due to the trans-static flux effect which occurs as a by-product of the deflection process; when laser light impinges on a deflector field, the effect creates a small portal into subspace, causing the laser beam to pass harmlessly into this domain. As the beam is not subspace encased, it will re-emerge into normal space within a few milliseconds, putting it several hundred light seconds away. Since the beam never actually impacts on either the deflector shield or hull the power of the attack is irrelevant to the effect. This process is not regarded as a serious defensive measure, since laser weapons are considered obsolete by most major powers.

At least he doesn't say it's all canon.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-12-27 09:35am

The original Intent of the script was that the ships were so weak that their weapons wouldn't scratch the Enterprise. It's like comparion a boat armeded with a 20mm machine gun to a Iowa-class Battleship. The little gun on the boat could fire all it wants and it won't ever hurt the Battleship. Any other use of this reference would like expecting the the 16-in shell on an Iowa to not hurt a Iowa 'cause its is also a gun and we have shown the ship is immune to guns. silly huh

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-12-27 09:41am

XaLEv wrote:
GK wrote:The navigation shields also posses another intriguing property; they are immune to attack from laser weaponry. This is due to the trans-static flux effect which occurs as a by-product of the deflection process; when laser light impinges on a deflector field, the effect creates a small portal into subspace, causing the laser beam to pass harmlessly into this domain. As the beam is not subspace encased, it will re-emerge into normal space within a few milliseconds, putting it several hundred light seconds away. Since the beam never actually impacts on either the deflector shield or hull the power of the attack is irrelevant to the effect. This process is not regarded as a serious defensive measure, since laser weapons are considered obsolete by most major powers.
At least he doesn't say it's all canon.

Note how GK presents this shit he's sprouting as fact, not merely as a crazy (and invalid btw) theory).

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-27 09:41am

XaLEv wrote:
At least he doesn't say it's all canon.

If you reduced his page to pure canon it would have 1/100th of the text it has now. The ratio of white to yellow is gargantuan.

The guy's best friend is his palm.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-27 09:56am

In addition, what happened to the magic nav deflector when sliced by the Borg cutting laser?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-12-27 01:00pm

Darth Wong wrote:There are countless ways to demolish that idiotic argument. I like GK's excuse (he thinks the ship becomes transparent to lasers, so they pass harmlessly through, and he dismisses all examples of lasers and light not passing through the ship by waving his hands furiously and trying to distract you).

I don't see how he could possibly think that. Even in TNG "Conundrum" you could see the lasers hitting the navigational deflector shield. Obviously they are not passing right through the ship.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2002-12-27 01:57pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:I don't see how he could possibly think that. Even in TNG "Conundrum" you could see the lasers hitting the navigational deflector shield. Obviously they are not passing right through the ship.

GK has never let direct observations get in the way of hit pet theories. Insane trekkies like him are impervious to logic.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-12-27 02:03pm

Darth Servo wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:I don't see how he could possibly think that. Even in TNG "Conundrum" you could see the lasers hitting the navigational deflector shield. Obviously they are not passing right through the ship.
GK has never let direct observations get in the way of hit pet theories. Insane trekkies like him are impervious to logic.

I'm almost thinking that it was a joke.

Dooey Jo · Post by **Dooey Jo** » 2002-12-27 02:09pm

GK wrote:The navigation shields also posses another intriguing property; they are immune to attack from laser weaponry. This is due to the trans-static flux effect which occurs as a by-product of the deflection process; when laser light impinges on a deflector field, the effect creates a small portal into subspace, causing the laser beam to pass harmlessly into this domain. As the beam is not subspace encased, it will re-emerge into normal space within a few milliseconds, putting it several hundred light seconds away. Since the beam never actually impacts on either the deflector shield or hull the power of the attack is irrelevant to the effect. This process is not regarded as a serious defensive measure, since laser weapons are considered obsolete by most major powers.

??? Why the hell would the laser re-emerge "several hundred lightseconds away" when it re-appeared in a few milliseconds?! Shouldn't it come back from subspace a few light milliseconds away? Or is the speed limit of the light higher in subspace? Or is he just full of shit?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-12-27 02:30pm

Dooey Jo wrote:
GK wrote:The navigation shields also posses another intriguing property; they are immune to attack from laser weaponry. This is due to the trans-static flux effect which occurs as a by-product of the deflection process; when laser light impinges on a deflector field, the effect creates a small portal into subspace, causing the laser beam to pass harmlessly into this domain. As the beam is not subspace encased, it will re-emerge into normal space within a few milliseconds, putting it several hundred light seconds away. Since the beam never actually impacts on either the deflector shield or hull the power of the attack is irrelevant to the effect. This process is not regarded as a serious defensive measure, since laser weapons are considered obsolete by most major powers.
??? Why the hell would the laser re-emerge "several hundred lightseconds away" when it re-appeared in a few milliseconds?! Shouldn't it come back from subspace a few light milliseconds away? Or is the speed limit of the light higher in subspace? Or is he just full of shit?

Well according to his websites FAQ, the plain colored text is just filler that he made up. The yellow is canon.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2002-12-27 02:59pm

Dooey Jo wrote:??? Why the hell would the laser re-emerge "several hundred lightseconds away" when it re-appeared in a few milliseconds?! Shouldn't it come back from subspace a few light milliseconds away? Or is the speed limit of the light higher in subspace? Or is he just full of shit?

Like most vs Trekkies, he's full of shit.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-12-27 03:08pm

I dunno...most Vs Trekkies even depise GK/Scooter/Darkstar/etc because he is truly something unique even amongst the most rabid of them.

I mean he is indeed head and shoulders above the average moron...and reading his stuff should give anyone a headache to try and grasp what the fuck is he smoking.

The Enterpriser · Post by **The Enterpriser** » 2002-12-27 04:11pm

Hey, teachers seem to like his stuff (I know first hand), while it's entertaining, his site is not a source for canon information, like someone else said it's 3/4 speculation.

I read his fanfic, it's laughable, reminds me of the bad old days

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-27 04:15pm

GK has no comprehension whatsoever of the principle of Occam's Razor, hence his fanciful invention of all sorts of imaginary mechanisms to support his theory when a far simpler theory (that Riker was using hyperbole) explains it without all of these asinine subspace technobabble mechanisms and mysteriously unobserved (but surely present) characteristics.

The fact that teachers often like his stuff is probably due to the fact that they haven't really looked at it all that carefully (either that, or they're just as incompetent as he is; teaching standards vary widely).

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2002-12-27 04:16pm

The Enterpriser wrote:Hey, teachers seem to like his stuff (I know first hand)

Teachers of what? Pseudoscience?

while it's entertaining, his site is not a source for canon information, like someone else said it's 3/4 speculation.

The remaining 1/4 is nonsense interpretations of out-of-context canon quotes.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2002-12-27 05:42pm

Hmm, whats the url to his site? I want to see it.

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2002-12-27 06:03pm

Exonerate wrote:Hmm, whats the url to his site? I want to see it.

http://www.ditl.org

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-12-27 07:19pm

Isolder74 wrote:The original Intent of the script was that the ships were so weak that their weapons wouldn't scratch the Enterprise. It's like comparion a boat armeded with a 20mm machine gun to a Iowa-class Battleship.

Hands up! This is a thread hijack!

Accurately aimed 20mm at close range will hurt--but certainly not sink--an Iowa. Raking the bridge windows with cannon fire will get rid of several senior officers and possibly start a fire. Assuming the 1980s refit Iowas, hitting the Tomahawk launchers could set off the TLAM warheads or fuel, in either case creating a major above-decks fire. Hitting the CWIS mounts would hurt the Iowa in as much that it would lose virtually all of its air-defense abilities and be even more vulnerable to subsequent air attacks. Granted, getting more than a handfull of cannon bursts off before the gunboat is dismantled by the Iowa's 5" mounts or .50 cals will require an act of god but it's an overstatement to assert that the Iowas are immune to 20mm fire.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2002-12-27 07:44pm

Darth Wong wrote:I like GK's excuse (he thinks the ship becomes transparent to lasers, so they pass harmlessly through, and he dismisses all examples of lasers and light not passing through the ship by waving his hands furiously and trying to distract you).

Graham Kennedy wrote:The navigation shields also posses another intriguing property; they are immune to attack from laser weaponry. This is due to the trans-static flux effect which occurs as a by-product of the deflection process; when laser light impinges on a deflector field, the effect creates a small portal into subspace, causing the laser beam to pass harmlessly into this domain. As the beam is not subspace encased, it will re-emerge into normal space within a few milliseconds, putting it several hundred light seconds away. Since the beam never actually impacts on either the deflector shield or hull the power of the attack is irrelevant to the effect. This process is not regarded as a serious defensive measure, since laser weapons are considered obsolete by most major powers.

Hmm...