Can we kill Al-Sadr now? Please?

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-04-24 05:39am

Sadr can also count on Sistani, who, although a relative moderate, has 'forbidden' US forces to enter Najaf.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-04-24 05:49am

Can't we just look for a decent Coalition friendly cleric and fund him to take out these guys?

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2004-04-24 06:01am

Gandalf wrote:Can't we just look for a decent Coalition friendly cleric and fund him to take out these guys?

They do not exist any longer.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-04-24 08:24am

Vympel wrote:Sadr can also count on Sistani, who, although a relative moderate, has 'forbidden' US forces to enter Najaf.

I guess we'll just have to toss bomb a JDAM from outside the city limits.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-04-24 09:36am

Rogue 9 wrote:And how would you like us to arrest him, hmmm? He's in the holiest city to Shi'ite Islam after Mecca and Medina, surrounded by armed men who will fight for him regardless, and beyond them is a city willing to repel the infidels from its holy city limits, or whatever. An arrest would be very problematic indeed.

I’m not saying arresting him would be easy or that it should be attempted any time soon I was simply pointing out that we are supposed to be the good guys here and “just killing people” (and those unlucky enough to be near by when “hellfire” them) is going to make the change over from brutal dictatorship to the enlightened democracy we a supposedly there to create seem rather false.

Taking a further leaf out of Sharon’s book and adopting a policy of “targeted assassination” or in other words the extrajudicial murder of anybody we don’t like will only convince any Iraqis still in doubt that we are imperial conquerors and not the liberators we claim to be.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-04-24 10:43am

My reply:

Okay, if you think we should stay out, we make you an offer

We will stay out, but YOU have to keep the city undercontrol, according to the law. If you mess up, you are responsible.

Make sure EVERYONE hears that (I'm thinking massive loud speakers here, etc) and knows this.

And when it all goes to hell 'Hey, you wanted this'

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-04-24 12:22pm

Vympel wrote:Sadr can also count on Sistani, who, although a relative moderate, has 'forbidden' US forces to enter Najaf.

Technically, a JDAM is not a member of the US military, but rather, an inanimate object.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-04-24 12:41pm

Always makes me wish we had some GDI orbital ion cannon up there. Spot this guy going for a walk in his holy city and FWAP! No more problem, a big scorch mark and one ex-cleric. Don't even need to level the city doing it.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-04-24 01:15pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Always makes me wish we had some GDI orbital ion cannon up there. Spot this guy going for a walk in his holy city and FWAP! No more problem, a big scorch mark and one ex-cleric. Don't even need to level the city doing it.

Sure that would be better than taking half a city block with him, but even if we can guarantee no collateral damage can we just kill people because wwe don't like their rhetoric? He may be messianic, self aggrandising and attempting a power grab but he hasn’t been tried or convicted of anything, he’s innocent until proven guilty. If we summarily execute him how are we any different from Sadam?

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-04-24 01:18pm

Plekhanov wrote:Sure that would be better than taking half a city block with him, but even if we can guarantee no collateral damage can we just kill people because wwe don't like their rhetoric? He may be messianic, self aggrandising and attempting a power grab but he hasn?t been tried or convicted of anything, he?s innocent until proven guilty. If we summarily execute him how are we any different from Sadam?

Also do we get orbital strikes on the likes of Falwell or Chick then?

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-04-24 01:28pm

Keevan_Colton wrote:
Plekhanov wrote:Sure that would be better than taking half a city block with him, but even if we can guarantee no collateral damage can we just kill people because wwe don't like their rhetoric? He may be messianic, self aggrandising and attempting a power grab but he hasn?t been tried or convicted of anything, he?s innocent until proven guilty. If we summarily execute him how are we any different from Sadam?
Also do we get orbital strikes on the likes of Falwell or Chick then?

I do admit smiting the likes of Falwell with something resembling a bolt of lighting would give me a great sense of satisfaction, especially if you got him mid homophobic rant live on tv and didn’t own up to the orbital weapons array thing, that would get the fundies thinking...

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-04-24 03:04pm

Darth Wong wrote: Technically, a JDAM is not a member of the US military, but rather, an inanimate object.

It's moments like this that we really connect, mike

sketerpot · Post by **sketerpot** » 2004-04-24 03:12pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Vympel wrote:Sadr can also count on Sistani, who, although a relative moderate, has 'forbidden' US forces to enter Najaf.
I guess we'll just have to toss bomb a JDAM from outside the city limits.

Rather than just killing the guys at the top, I have a fun idea. Give these radical clerics drugs that drastically reduce their sanity, and do it before a rally or something. For real fun, dose the entire inner circle around one of these guys. We'll see what happens to their organization once they start calling Jihads on the flying unicorns.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-04-24 03:21pm

Plekhanov wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:Always makes me wish we had some GDI orbital ion cannon up there. Spot this guy going for a walk in his holy city and FWAP! No more problem, a big scorch mark and one ex-cleric. Don't even need to level the city doing it.
Sure that would be better than taking half a city block with him, but even if we can guarantee no collateral damage can we just kill people because wwe don't like their rhetoric? He may be messianic, self aggrandising and attempting a power grab but he hasn’t been tried or convicted of anything, he’s innocent until proven guilty. If we summarily execute him how are we any different from Sadam?

Coincidentally, that was one of the points raised for the anti-orbital weapons crowd since we can already spy on a random bloke in the park reading hus Sunday paper, add a big laser pointer of decent power to the thing and you have a great assassination technique.

But I'd like to think given the ease we could "deal" with certain members of society through the use of CIA/NSA/MI5/MI6/Mossad agents and their resources, we'd not have to worry about those issues.

Provided Ashcroft doesn't get at the helm. Anyone see that Dilbert episode where a guy using a phoneline could get fried by an electrical shock sent to that number? Now imagine the RIAA/MPAA getting the numbers of all those nasty downloaders...

h0rus · Post by **h0rus** » 2004-04-25 01:58am

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Always makes me wish we had some GDI orbital ion cannon up there. Spot this guy going for a walk in his holy city and FWAP! No more problem, a big scorch mark and one ex-cleric. Don't even need to level the city doing it.

Haven't you ever seen an ion cannon attack?

That would do more than precision scorch the guy.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-04-25 02:35am

h0rus wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:Always makes me wish we had some GDI orbital ion cannon up there. Spot this guy going for a walk in his holy city and FWAP! No more problem, a big scorch mark and one ex-cleric. Don't even need to level the city doing it.
Haven't you ever seen an ion cannon attack? That would do more than precision scorch the guy.

I was thinking "power levels".

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2004-04-25 03:13am

Darth Wong wrote:
Vympel wrote:Sadr can also count on Sistani, who, although a relative moderate, has 'forbidden' US forces to enter Najaf.
Technically, a JDAM is not a member of the US military, but rather, an inanimate object.

Good one.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-04-25 03:23am

Regarding the whole JDAM thing; blowing up a Mosque with a cleric in it would generally be seen as a Bad Thing (TM). Get instant martyrs (i.e. all those guys protecting him) and religious sacrilege, two for one!

banquetbear · Post by **banquetbear** » 2004-04-25 05:14am

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Plekhanov wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:Always makes me wish we had some GDI orbital ion cannon up there. Spot this guy going for a walk in his holy city and FWAP! No more problem, a big scorch mark and one ex-cleric. Don't even need to level the city doing it.
Sure that would be better than taking half a city block with him, but even if we can guarantee no collateral damage can we just kill people because wwe don't like their rhetoric? He may be messianic, self aggrandising and attempting a power grab but he hasn’t been tried or convicted of anything, he’s innocent until proven guilty. If we summarily execute him how are we any different from Sadam?
Coincidentally, that was one of the points raised for the anti-orbital weapons crowd since we can already spy on a random bloke in the park reading hus Sunday paper, add a big laser pointer of decent power to the thing and you have a great assassination technique.

But I'd like to think given the ease we could "deal" with certain members of society through the use of CIA/NSA/MI5/MI6/Mossad agents and their resources, we'd not have to worry about those issues.

Provided Ashcroft doesn't get at the helm. Anyone see that Dilbert episode where a guy using a phoneline could get fried by an electrical shock sent to that number? Now imagine the RIAA/MPAA getting the numbers of all those nasty downloaders...

...sorry to slightly hijack the thread, but AV-you will love this game...
http://www.old-pc-games.com/arcade-acti ... niper.html

::runs back to lurk::

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2004-04-25 06:23am

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Always makes me wish we had some GDI orbital ion cannon up there. Spot this guy going for a walk in his holy city and FWAP! No more problem, a big scorch mark and one ex-cleric. Don't even need to level the city doing it.

Bah, give me a metal spike with guidance system dropped from orbit anytime.

A heck of a lot cheaper too.

0.1 · Post by **0.1** » 2004-04-25 05:17pm

Actually, I'd rather have Al Sadr than Sistani... the former is younger, more impressionable, and let's just say a bit more pliable. There is always something to be said for having a straight up enemy rather than so called allies who is off doing God knows what behind your back. After all, violence and force of arms is much easier to understand than going through the intrigues of the court (the governing council in this case)

So, the smart thing is let him live and may be even thrive just a little. Let him stir up hatred, militancy and all kinds of shit. It's just a bit easier to deal with people like Al Sadr (Arafat, Rantisi, and so forth) than ones like Ghandi, who you couldn't just put down because of the ability to better apply asymmetric pressure through their choice of non-violent tactics.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-25 11:55pm

Yes, but Gandhi didn't kill people and blow shit up (obviously), which is our main problem. If the insurgents would stop blowing up the freakin' power grid and stirring up the population we'd be able to hand over power sooner. Remember, the British didn't want to leave India. We do want to leave Iraq. Having a Gandhi style opponent to our presence would help that goal immensely.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-04-26 12:05am

Rogue 9 wrote:Remember, the British didn't want to leave India. We do want to leave Iraq. Having a Gandhi style opponent to our presence would help that goal immensely.

And we wont leave any troops or military bases there, the Iraqis will have a totally free hand it foreign policy, can do business with whoever they choose and will be able to sell their oil to whoever they like at their own price.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2004-04-26 12:10am

Plekhanov wrote: And we wont leave any troops or military bases there, the Iraqis will have a totally free hand it foreign policy, can do business with whoever they choose and will be able to sell their oil to whoever they like at their own price.

Now now, don't be negative

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-26 12:13am

Plekhanov wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:Remember, the British didn't want to leave India. We do want to leave Iraq. Having a Gandhi style opponent to our presence would help that goal immensely.
And we wont leave any troops or military bases there, the Iraqis will have a totally free hand it foreign policy, can do business with whoever they choose and will be able to sell their oil to whoever they like at their own price.

Come now, you really expect us to pour those kinds of resources into liberating Iraq and not put a clause about preferential oil prices for the United States into their Constitution?

(j/k)

But yeah, that is the idea. We're not looking for colonies here, and if we started to turn Iraq into one instead of pulling out, Bush would be impeached so fast you'd wonder why Cheney's President twelve hours later. The United States has militarily smashed other countries before and given 'em back. Germany, Japan, and Italy are prominent examples, and with the possible exception of Japan, an occupation of any of them would not have had the same massive problems as a permanent garrisoning of Iraq would now.