Canada-The Know it all Neighbour

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-05-11 10:30pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I would rather not live there. Too religious, too much simmering resentment between blacks and whites, too tense.
Would living in the US be any worse than living in say Alberta which seems to be the gathering point for fundies in Canada?

Frankly, I consider Alberta to have been culturally annexed by Texas long ago. It's Texas North: our very own collection of rednecks, religious fanatics, and homophobes. If you forced me to choose between New York and Alberta, I'd take New York in a heartbeat.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2004-05-11 10:49pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Enigma wrote:Well since I live in the nations capital (i.e. center of despair that is Ottawa) and from what I hear from radio talk shows, Americans are to blame for everything. FBI and the CIA planned the 9/11 incident (some even mentioned Jews as the cause).
That's not anti-Americanism; that's just conspiracy theory crackpot stupidity and anti-Semitism. You hear some of the same bullshit on American radio stations.

Yes but I hear it all too often. Especially the anti-semitism.

Darth Wong wrote:
Enigma wrote:Anything associated with the U.S. is considered horrible to Canadians, at least in Ottawa. My impression is that many Canadians secretly despise the Americans.
Many Canadians openly despise the American government, myself included. Personally, I believe there are two Americas: the generous America and the asshole America. Some people belong to one half, some belong to the other half, and some can switch from one to the other depending on their mood or the situation.

Well there is no distinction made whenever I listen to the callers on the radio.

Me? Well, I don't care what others think of americans. I find the U.S. to be ok. If I could find a decent job that pays very well then I'd go south and live there.

I would rather not live there. Too religious, too much simmering resentment between blacks and whites, too tense.[/quote]

Well Toronto isn't the best place either to live in too. If I were to live in the States, I'd choose a city close to Ottawa's size. There's racism in the States but there is reverse racism here.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-05-11 10:53pm

Enigma wrote:Well Toronto isn't the best place either to live in too.

If you compare the attitude to interracial dating here and in a typical US city (where people say it's OK but tend not to do it anyway), you'll see one of the reasons why I am happy living in Toronto.

If I were to live in the States, I'd choose a city close to Ottawa's size. There's racism in the States but there is reverse racism here.

That's because you live in a city whose entire economy is the federal government. Political correctness is a way of life in Ottawa.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2004-05-11 11:04pm

Glocksman wrote:Of course, we weren't always the best of friends and even up to the US Civil War there were concerns that the US would have invaded Canada in order to gain new territory.

IIRC, Canada was worried about the US annexing them up until WW2. They never really trusted us until that war.

Alferd Packer · Post by **Alferd Packer** » 2004-05-11 11:10pm

Darth Wong wrote:If you compare the attitude to interracial dating here and in a typical US city (where people say it's OK but tend not to do it anyway), you'll see one of the reasons why I am happy living in Toronto.

If you consider a city like Des Moines or, say, Lincoln as typical, I'd wholeheartedly agree with you. I prefer, however, to consider the East and West Coasts as more "typical" (probably because I've spent a lot of time on both); maybe I'm just an optimistic fool that way. The Northeast and California are typically progressive socially(at least, when compared to the rest of the country), while the middle of the country is sort of viewed as a throwback, slow to change. In time, people tend to think, they'll catch up to the rest of "us". Or maybe not. Maybe I'm just hoping for something that'll never happen anyplace off the coasts.

Where I live, racism is the aberration, not the norm. In fact, I darethink I'd be hard pressed to name an open racist I've run into here at school, but perhaps that's simply because I'm at school, and simply because it's a pretty even mix of everyone around here. I dunno, maybe I just look around and see everyone pretty much not caring about race and I think everyone must be like that.

Geez, I'm only 21, and already I'm a sentimental fool.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2004-05-11 11:19pm

The Northeast and California are typically progressive socially(at least, when compared to the rest of the country), while the middle of the country is sort of viewed as a throwback, slow to change

It's all in the perspective.

We here in 'flyover country' tend to see California as 'the land of fruits and nuts', to quote S.I Hayakawa, and have no desire to emulate it.

The same goes for the Northeast. While NYC may be an interesting place to visit, I have no desire to ever live there, though I've always said that Evansville is a great place to grow up and a great place to grow old without much for those in between.

Phil Skayhan · Post by **Phil Skayhan** » 2004-05-12 02:39am

Darth Wong wrote:If you compare the attitude to interracial dating here and in a typical US city (where people say it's OK but tend not to do it anyway), you'll see one of the reasons why I am happy living in Toronto.

My question is why? Is there something we can learn from Toronto that can be applied in the states to improve race relations?

I can't speak for the whole of the NYC area, but it was fairly common at my bar to see interracial couples. I never perceived anyone even raising an eyebrow about it. Also, of my three closest friends, only one of them married the same race.

Even here in the Wilmington, Delaware area it is not uncommon to see mixed couples at the bar. But maybe my perception is skewed because there is more open racism here and it's standing out more to me than it should. The main difference is that here is seems that the only races are white and black. The only Hispanics I see are the ones working in the kitchen and the only Asians are students out for a day of shopping from the university and even those are rare enough.

It is this lack of variety that I was complaining to my sister last night. She lives in Virginia and while where she is has a pretty good mix, we both agreed that once you go below Trenton/Philadelphia the racism increases dramatically. Strangely, so does the number of fundamentalist churches....hmmm.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-05-12 02:49am

Phil Skayhan wrote:I can't speak for the whole of the NYC area, but it was fairly common at my bar to see interracial couples.

NYC is quite progressive by American standards Nevertheless, the term "fairly common" can mean different things to different people. When it reaches the point that you don't even take note of mixed-race couples at all any more, then it's fairly common.

Phil Skayhan · Post by **Phil Skayhan** » 2004-05-12 03:03am

Darth Wong wrote:When it reaches the point that you don't even take note of mixed-race couples at all any more, then it's fairly common.

That is perhaps more me than anything else. I took note mostly as a way to help remember names and/or drink preferences. But your point still applies.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-05-12 07:36am

Darth Wong wrote:
Phil Skayhan wrote:I can't speak for the whole of the NYC area, but it was fairly common at my bar to see interracial couples.
NYC is quite progressive by American standards Nevertheless, the term "fairly common" can mean different things to different people. When it reaches the point that you don't even take note of mixed-race couples at all any more, then it's fairly common.

the whole northeast is like that, save for some rural areas. Of all of the cities here that i have been to i'd be hard pressed to find one (outside of the deep south) where an inter-racial couple would be persecuted. For the past year I lived in a city with no ethnic majority.... inter racial coupes are almost a neccicity. You're assumptions on americans are verging on sterotype.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-05-12 07:45am

Crackpot wrote

You're assumptions on americans are verging on sterotype.

No shit ,.... I was Raised in ND and went to college there... inter-racial couples were common even during the 80's

also .. Rapid City SD... Scottsdale AZ.. Charleston Sc.. Still no problems that I have seen...

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-05-12 08:17am

theski wrote:Crackpot wrote
You're assumptions on americans are verging on sterotype.
No shit ,.... I was Raised in ND and went to college there... inter-racial couples were common even during the 80's

also .. Rapid City SD... Scottsdale AZ.. Charleston Sc.. Still no problems that I have seen...

add Boston (MA), New York (NY), Providence (RI), Hartford (CT), Springfield (MA), Albany (NY), Baltimore, (MD) Washington (DC), Miami(FL), Savannah, Chicago (IL), Newark(NJ)

Perhaps, Mike if you didn't compare Toronto to places like Swainsboro Georgia and you'd apples to apples and chose the Canadian equivilant like Hickville, Manitoba; Nowheresburg, Saskatchewan; Moose Shit Jucntion , Alberta, he'd realize that Canada isn't very different than the United States after all. Yes, we have ignorant fundies. so do you.For every enlightened, educated Torontotonian or Montreallais there is a hillbilly in rural Nova Scotia or Prince Edward Island. So your perceprion that most of America is run by uneducated Jesus freaks is about as accurate as the equivilant stereotype: Canadians are a bunch of Hockey playing Mounties who get drunk eating back bacon in their igloo while listening to Rush (props to Conan O'Brian)

Currald · Post by **Currald** » 2004-05-12 02:47pm

The US will never conquer Canada for the simple reason that Quebec would then become our problem.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2004-05-12 03:45pm

Glocksman wrote:
The Northeast and California are typically progressive socially(at least, when compared to the rest of the country), while the middle of the country is sort of viewed as a throwback, slow to change
It's all in the perspective.

We here in 'flyover country' tend to see California as 'the land of fruits and nuts', to quote S.I Hayakawa, and have no desire to emulate it.

The same goes for the Northeast. While NYC may be an interesting place to visit, I have no desire to ever live there, though I've always said that Evansville is a great place to grow up and a great place to grow old without much for those in between.

What's wrong with California? Too much interracial dating? Or is it some other socially progressive trait that bothers you?

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-05-12 04:22pm

Enigma wrote:Well since I live in the nations capital (i.e. center of despair that is Ottawa) and from what I hear from radio talk shows, Americans are to blame for everything. FBI and the CIA planned the 9/11 incident (some even mentioned Jews as the cause).

Are you serious? That's pretty messed up.

I thought we had advanced, as a society, beyond this hatemongering conspiracy-theorizing trend. Do the talk radio loons bring up propaganda like the blood libel or the Protocaols of Zion?

I haven't seen shit that messed up taken seriously anywhere outside of Berkeley, San Francisco and Oakland.

Maybe it's some kind of -ism, but I just didn't think Canada had racist psychos that extreme.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-05-12 04:28pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Enigma wrote:Well Toronto isn't the best place either to live in too.
If you compare the attitude to interracial dating here and in a typical US city (where people say it's OK but tend not to do it anyway), you'll see one of the reasons why I am happy living in Toronto.

I've lived in the Bay Area of california and in LA and Orange County, and I have never encountered any kind of problem from interracial dating. The only complaints I have heard are from my wife's ex-roommate's mother who complains because she is dating a white guy. But this mother takes every opportunity she can to fulfil the Joy Luck Club Chinese Mother stereotype.

I suppose I also should mention my wife's highschool friend who is white but only dates black men. No one gives her shit for it.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-05-12 04:59pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:add Boston (MA), New York (NY), Providence (RI), Hartford (CT), Springfield (MA), Albany (NY), Baltimore, (MD) Washington (DC), Miami(FL), Savannah, Chicago (IL), Newark(NJ)

I've been to Detroit, New York, and several other cities in the NE part of the US. Interracial couples are still quite unusual. You are acting as though the lack of outright persecution disproves the statement that they're not common.

Perhaps, Mike if you didn't compare Toronto to places like Swainsboro Georgia and you'd apples to apples and chose the Canadian equivilant like Hickville, Manitoba; Nowheresburg, Saskatchewan; Moose Shit Jucntion , Alberta, he'd realize that Canada isn't very different than the United States after all. Yes, we have ignorant fundies. so do you.For every enlightened, educated Torontotonian or Montreallais there is a hillbilly in rural Nova Scotia or Prince Edward Island. So your perceprion that most of America is run by uneducated Jesus freaks is about as accurate as the equivilant stereotype: Canadians are a bunch of Hockey playing Mounties who get drunk eating back bacon in their igloo while listening to Rush (props to Conan O'Brian)

I've been to northeastern US cities, dumb-ass. Stop tripping over your assumptions.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-05-12 05:00pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:I suppose I also should mention my wife's highschool friend who is white but only dates black men. No one gives her shit for it.

What part of "they say it's OK but they tend not do it" are you fucking people incapable of understanding?" How is that refuted by "people who do it don't get persecuted"?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-05-12 07:36pm

Colin Wright on the TDG forums wrote: All right, I admit it. We've just been lurking down here for sixty years, lusting with desire for the limitless riches of Canada, plotting, scheming, held in check only by our fear of the awesome courage of the supermen of Vimy Ridge and umm...err...well...some other WW1 battle.

But we'll strike! Someday you'll let your guard down and then we'll strike! Amerika uber Alles!!! The Drang nach Ottawa!!! On to Winnipeg and victory!!!!

0.1 · Post by **0.1** » 2004-05-12 07:43pm

continuing the fine tradition of reading Mike's exact words and understanding his meaning... I think he just suggested that we persecute him.

Woohooo. Let's persecute Mike Wong for... well, whatever. The reason isn't important, just the persecution.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-05-12 07:44pm

0.1 wrote: Woohooo. Let's persecute Mike Wong for... well, whatever. The reason isn't important, just the persecution.

0.1, Shut the fuck up.

Mike's just being.....Mike on the Untied States

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2004-05-12 07:50pm

Mike, you've BEEN to a few cities; you haven't LIVED here. I live in California, and interracial dating hasn't been a blip on the "who gives a fuck" radar in more than two decades.

"Anyone who lives between New York and California is a fuckin' farmer!"

--Andrew Dice Clay

0.1 · Post by **0.1** » 2004-05-12 07:50pm

Shep,

I didn't say there was anything wrong with what Mike said...

I'm just taking his entire message out of context.

So, how should people persecute Mike? If done just right, it would provide the right fodder and just the correct amount of indignation to keep him going for a few more pages.

You know, must reinforce behavior.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2004-05-12 07:58pm

On my list of places I'd like to move after I get my shit together in a couple years, the UK is #1 and Canada is a more feasible #2.

0.1 · Post by **0.1** » 2004-05-12 08:01pm

For Canada, I recommend Vancouver. I really liked that city compared to say Ottawa or Toronto just for the weather. The winter seem to be much milder at Vancouver. And you can always find a decent place to ski not too far up north.