Brits post your votes tomorrow to stop the Fascist BNP

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-06-09 02:56am

sketerpot wrote:I hope nobody ever wrongly accuses me of a crime if these guys get in power. Somehow I have a bad feeling that they'd consider me a criminal and trample on my quotation-mark adorned "rights".

There was a webpaget that Plekhanov linked to some other time that showed that nearly all of the top brass at the BNP have a rap sheet a mile long. Kinda ironic, no?

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-06-09 07:43am

2000AD wrote:Pity there was no Monster Raving Loonie standing in my election.

I was going to stand here, but didn't have time

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-06-09 07:45am

Crown wrote: There was a webpaget that Plekhanov linked to some other time that showed that nearly all of the top brass at the BNP have a rap sheet a mile long. Kinda ironic, no?

Neo-nazi fuckheads cant play nice? Who woulda thunk it!

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2004-06-09 09:05am

A question before I start debating on this thread....

Will I get a humiliating custom title if I make politically incorrect statements which I may not actually believe, just for the sake of playing the devil's advocate?

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-06-09 09:12am

lol. these guys make Ol' Pat Buchannon look like a lefty. How the fuck did they get so damnned powerful?

*revels is the fact that the fundies are across the pond for a change.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-06-09 09:25am

Col. Crackpot wrote:lol. these guys make Ol' Pat Buchannon look like a lefty. How the fuck did they get so damnned powerful?

They like to portray themselves as being nice and fluffy friendly. The idiot masses then vote for them thinking they're not that bad really, or in protest at whatever party is in power.

I presume the majority later regret it.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-06-09 09:35am

Col. Crackpot wrote:lol. these guys make Ol' Pat Buchannon look like a lefty. How the fuck did they get so damnned powerful?

*revels is the fact that the fundies are across the pond for a change.

Powerful isn't exactly what I would term them, they have never had a seat in the Commons and there is very little chance they ever will.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-06-09 09:52am

TheDarkling wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:lol. these guys make Ol' Pat Buchannon look like a lefty. How the fuck did they get so damnned powerful?

*revels is the fact that the fundies are across the pond for a change.
Powerful isn't exactly what I would term them, they have never had a seat in the Commons and there is very little chance they ever will.

so they hold only regional positions?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-06-09 09:59am

Col. Crackpot wrote:
so they hold only regional positions?

Yeah, just a few local council seats.

The worry about the European Elections is that they use proportional representation and not the far better First past the post.
Although I'm sure Plekhanov disagrees since he supports the Lib Dems.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-06-09 10:02am

TheDarkling wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:
so they hold only regional positions?
Yeah, just a few local council seats.

The worry about the European Elections is that they use proportional representation and not the far better First past the post.
Although I'm sure Plekhanov disagrees since he supports the Lib Dems.

so then they are no more powerful than the Green Party in the US. BAH! Let the little trogolites run wild long enouh for people to realize that they are a bunch of kooks. Whats the worse they can do?

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2004-06-09 12:45pm

I cant believe that my old primary school elected in the local BNP cadidate in as the Chair of governors !

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-06-09 02:29pm

The Third Man wrote:I think there are other factors besides these two. Disillusionment with existing parties is definitely part of it, and like I said in the other thread, the current bout of racial tension pre-dates 9/11

I wasn’t saying that those were the only reasons for the growth of the BNP, they were the 2 major reasons I thought of as I dashed off in anger to Ali G’s post which pissed me off quite a bit

It’s true that that the summer riots of 2001 preceded 9.11 and that the BNP had been growing for a while. I think a lot of it has to do with the leadership of Griffin who was behind dropping the policy of compulsory repatriation and shifting the focus from straight up racist campaigning to a more anti immigration stance.

Very true. The BNP campaign on very local issues, and spend a lot of time having a go at existing parties, typically accusing them of corruption and sleaze. This seems to me to be a very effective tactic on their part.

There's an excellent article here, which I think really gets across the feelings in Burnley and a lot of other North-West places where the BNP are strong. For the record, I think Mr Damms - the Chamber of Commerce guy who is quoted, and who I've met professionally and semi-professionally a few times - is talking a lot of sense, and I strongly agree with him.

That is an excellent a article and really highlights the way in that many BNP voters aren’t actually hard-line racists but frustrated people who feel left behind and ignored by the current political system.

TheDarklingYeah wrote:, just a few local council seats.

The worry about the European Elections is that they use proportional representation and not the far better First past the post. Although I'm sure Plekhanov disagrees since he supports the Lib Dems.

Your right, I do disagree with you about PR. If you look at the areas where the BNP are most likely to have success they are nearly all “safe” Labour wards in Labour dominated councils. The rock solid labour majorities in the sink estates and so forth has meant that Labour have taken them for granted and neglected them allowing the BNP to step in to the vacuum that FPTP created. Aside from efforts from the political parties being channelled into marginal areas there is also a temptation for those in power to play to these areas as well meaning that “safe” areas don’t get the investment they need. This article posted by Third Man really illustrates the way on which the BNP are able to grow at a grassroots level and what I regard as some of the problems of FPTP.

It’s true PR will give the BNP a good chance of gaining some MEP’s but I think they are only in a position to do so because the use of FPTP in local and national elections has created the conditions of complacency amongst the major parties particularly Labour that has created excellent conditions to allow the BNP to grow at the grass roots level.

When we have a national system of PR every vote will count and the parties will be unable to take things for granted, they will be forced to work for every seat and the BNP will no longer find neglected safe seats to move in on.

Exmoor Cat · Post by **Exmoor Cat** » 2004-06-09 05:36pm

THe one consolation you can draw from the likes of UKIP and the BNP is that when they do wn a seat lcoally or in the EU parliament, they usually don't last long and resign quicly afterwards, though leaving everyone wth a bitter taste in their mouthes in the aftermath.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2004-06-09 05:47pm

SirNitram wrote:The dangers of not shackling yourself to a two party system.

VOTE MONSTER RAVING LOONIES!

BECAUSE A GUY IN A LOBSTER SUIT IS BETTER THAN A NAZI!

It is a lobster suit this year, isn't it?

I'd vote for him! Check him out at this year's party convention!

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2004-06-10 02:14am

It's a pity that "freedom of speech" is just a pretty phrase to them. I think that what they really want is freedom of their own speech, and they don't give a damn about other people being able to express themselves freely.

Seems like some of you also think that freedom of speech shouldn't apply to people whose viewpoints are politically incorrect.

If you're truly supporters of democracy, you should also defend their supposed rights to voice their opinion.

I have nothing against it if you oppose democracy - I have actually once on this very forum argued for dictatorship - but if you recognize that democracy is built upon the lie that all opinions are equally valid, you better be honest about it.

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2004-06-10 09:51am

Peregrin Toker wrote: Seems like some of you also think that freedom of speech shouldn't apply to people whose viewpoints are politically incorrect.

Politically correctness does not enter, but I'm indeed for banning speech of people who diseminate downright dangerous thoughts.
We know what happens when fascists, nationalsocialists or stalinists come to power, and if you use your freedom of speech with the aim of eliminating freedom I have no problem with you being the first for which this freedom is eliminated.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2004-06-10 04:13pm

Thinkmarble wrote:We know what happens when fascists, nationalsocialists or stalinists come to power, and if you use your freedom of speech with the aim of eliminating freedom I have no problem with you being the first for which this freedom is eliminated.

Pardon me, but:

1) You seem to be committing a "hasty generalization" fallacy.
2) Ironically you happen to be the one using your freedom of speech with the aim of eliminating that which you define as freedom, as you believe that a select political party should be banned or otherwise persecuted for holding politically incorrect views.