Israel withdrawing from West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem?

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2004-06-11 03:31pm

EmperorSolo51 wrote:
Xenophobe3691 wrote:
Plekhanov wrote: But Sharon's plan just covers Gaza and he's going to annex half of the West Bank in recompense. The thread title talks about withdrawing from Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem, I’ll need some extremely hard evidence before I believe that.
Well, if he annexes the West Bank as the Golan was annexed previously, then the Palestinians become Israeli citizens, same as the Druze and Arabs were in the Heights. They then get the same rights Israeli Arabs do...which are all of them bar military service.
That's a lie. Israeli arabs are not barred from military service. They are just not forced into compulsory conscription. Israeli Arabs can volunteer and join up with the IDF if they so choose.

I forgot to add this, during the war of Independence, 6 day war, and Yom Kippur war some the best fighting units from the IDF came from Israeli Arabs. The Beduoin units are considered the best military regiments by the IDF.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-06-11 03:38pm

EmperorSolo51 wrote: That's a lie. Israeli arabs are not barred from military service. They are just not forced into compulsory conscription. Israeli Arabs can volunteer and join up with the IDF if they so choose.

How many of them do so?
Also, where the fuck did you get the idea there are Bedoui units? the Army is not sergregated here, except that the Druze are pre-dominantly in recon.

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2004-06-11 04:08pm

Ace Pace wrote:
EmperorSolo51 wrote: That's a lie. Israeli arabs are not barred from military service. They are just not forced into compulsory conscription. Israeli Arabs can volunteer and join up with the IDF if they so choose.
How many of them do so?
Also, where the fuck did you get the idea there are Bedoui units? the Army is not sergregated here, except that the Druze are pre-dominantly in recon.

There are Bedouin Units. There have been since the creation of Israel in 1948. These include the Israeli Arabs and Bedouin tribes of the Negev Desert. I don't have the exact figures, But doing a simple google search yeilded these:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/mid ... 763445.stm

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/mfaarchive/19 ... n%20israel

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-06-11 04:12pm

The first link is the only one relevent, and it still makes no mention of special Bedouin units, only units who have a Bedouin majority.

The Bedouin and the Druze have been part of the Israeli army since 1948, thats true, and yet they are not main combat units.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-06-11 05:57pm

EmperorSolo51 wrote: That's a lie. Israeli arabs are not barred from military service. They are just not forced into compulsory conscription. Israeli Arabs can volunteer and join up with the IDF if they so choose.

That's what I meant, I"m sorry. I should've said that they can't be conscripted.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-06-11 10:40pm

So, do the Israelis like the Bedouins, or what?

Post by **Coyote** » 2004-06-12 03:40am

My roommate at Ben-Gurion University, Muhannid, was a Bedouin from the Mount Tabor region. He said that Bedouin can volunteer to join the IDF if they want, that there is (or was at the time) a "Sayyeret ha'Bedoui" or Bedouin special ops group that was for tracking and border patrol.

The problem is, at least according to him, was that service in the IDF did not do the Arabs much good, since the resultant status doesn't carry over into the Israeli job market and few Arabs ever make it beyond the rank of Colonel-- thus keeping them out of any potential political spotlight. NOte that it is primarily former IDF Generals that become movers and shakers in Israel's politics.

According to Muhannid, enrollment in the Druze and Bedouin units is way down since it becomes a couple years off your life with low pay and no tangible benefits afterwards. Most Israeli Arabs go to the Israeli university system, which is excellent, get trained, and then go live in other countries where they can get decent income.

The byproduct is that those who cannot afford to learn or move-- ie, the poor and those without hope or basic education, are the ones left behind in Israel. Uneducated, unemployed, frustrated... belonging to a militant group may give many the feeling of "doing something" about their situation. But that is just guesswork on my part...

Post by **Coyote** » 2004-06-12 03:59am

HemlockGrey wrote:So, do the Israelis like the Bedouins, or what?

That Arabs are discriminated against is not in question, it was the question of military service that brought up the Bedouins.

Bedouin villages spring up all over the Negev, illegally and sometimes tapping into water and power systems. THey also have no provisions for sewage or garbage disposal but take refuse out a few hundred meters and dump it out.

Regardless of the status of Arabs in general or Bedouins in particular, the problems associated with this sort of activity should be obvious.

And yes, for the record, I think illegal Jewish settlements should be removed as well-- even though I am of the impression that they use their own power and water and septic systems.