State Dept re-issues Travel Warning on Zim

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29842
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

State Dept re-issues Travel Warning on Zim

Post by MKSheppard »

United States Department of State - Travel Warning - Zimbabwe

Travel Warning

United States Department of State
Bureau of Consular Affairs
Washington, DC 20520

This information is current as of today, Fri, 09 Jul 2004 09:53:02 GMT-0400.

Zimbabwe

July 2, 2004

This Travel Warning is being issued to remind Americans of the political, economic and humanitarian crises in Zimbabwe. This supersedes the Travel Warning of January 22, 2004.

The Department of State warns U.S. citizens of the risks of travel to Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe continues to be in the midst of political, economic and humanitarian crises with serious implications for the security situation in the country. All U.S. citizens in Zimbabwe are urged to take those measures they deem appropriate to ensure their well-being.

The Zimbabwean economy is in precipitous decline, with extremely high rates of unemployment and inflation. The economic crisis has led to a serious increase in crime. Zimbabwe is still experiencing spot fuel shortages that can hinder in-country travel.

Zimbabwe's food shortages are expected to continue, although, it is difficult to assess the severity of the situation given government secrecy surrounding agricultural production. The humanitarian crisis is expected to worsen in coming months and may lead to possible large-scale migration of Zimbabweans to urban or border areas, with further disruption and an increase in crime and instability.

Commercial farms should be avoided at all times, especially those occupied by settlers or so-called "war veterans," who are typically young government supporters acting with impunity outside the law. In 2002, U.S. Embassy staff members were detained and one was beaten by war veterans on a farm near Harare.

American citizens visiting or resident in Zimbabwe are urged to register with the U.S. Embassy in Harare, located at 172 Herbert Chipeto Ave., telephone: (263) 4-250-593/4/5.

U.S. citizens who remain in Zimbabwe despite this Travel Warning should consult the Department of State's Consular Information Sheet for Zimbabwe, and the Worldwide Caution Public Announcement, which are available via the Internet at http://travel.state.gov. American citizens may obtain up-to-date information on security conditions by calling 1-888-407-4747 toll-free in the United States or 317-472-2328 from overseas.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
User avatar
Einhander Sn0m4n
Insane Railgunner
Posts: 18630
Joined: 2002-10-01 05:51am
Location: Louisiana... or Dagobah. You know, where Yoda lives.

Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

Better Idea: GTFO from Zimbabwe and slap a total embargo on the fuckers till they clean up the mess. :)
Image Image
User avatar
Tribun
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2164
Joined: 2003-05-25 10:02am
Location: Lübeck, Germany
Contact:

Post by Tribun »

Zimbabwe? Isn't where it went that way?:

"The whites are resposible for our misery! Take away thier farms!"

Farms are taken away, land divided between blacks. Whites leave the Zimbabwe.

"Our misery is now even greater, because we can't use the land properply!"
User avatar
Xenophobe3691
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4334
Joined: 2002-07-24 08:55am
Location: University of Central Florida, Orlando, FL
Contact:

Post by Xenophobe3691 »

Tribun wrote:Zimbabwe? Isn't where it went that way?:

"The whites are resposible for our misery! Take away thier farms!"

Farms are taken away, land divided between blacks. Whites leave the Zimbabwe.

"Our misery is now even greater, because we can't use the land properply!"
Yep. Such normally happens when you blame a specific subgroup for your problems, simply because they're there...
Dark Heresy: Dance Macabre - Imperial Psyker Magnus Arterra

BoTM
Proud Decepticon

Post 666 Made on Fri Jul 04, 2003 @ 12:48 pm
Post 1337 made on Fri Aug 22, 2003 @ 9:18 am
Post 1492 Made on Fri Aug 29, 2003 @ 5:16 pm

Hail Xeno: Lord of Calculus -- Ace Pace
Image
User avatar
A Big Flying Fish
Jedi Knight
Posts: 623
Joined: 2002-07-07 07:49am
Location: England

Post by A Big Flying Fish »

Tribun wrote:Zimbabwe? Isn't where it went that way?:

"The whites are resposible for our misery! Take away thier farms!"

Farms are taken away, land divided between blacks. Whites leave the Zimbabwe.

"Our misery is now even greater, because we can't use the land properply!"
Actually, it was more like
"The whites are resposible for our misery! Take away thier farms!"

Farms are taken away, land divided between blacks. Whites leave the Zimbabwe.

"Our misery is now even greater, it must the whites fault again. Lets kill some more and then tell them to give us money and food. Not to mention bitching again"
Dwarf Obsessive. There's just something about short barrel-chested people with a penchent for axes and beards.
User avatar
BlkbrryTheGreat
BANNED
Posts: 2658
Joined: 2002-11-04 07:48pm
Location: Philadelphia PA

Post by BlkbrryTheGreat »

I've said it for years- most of Africa would have been better off if it had remained a British Colony.
Devolution is quite as natural as evolution, and may be just as pleasing, or even a good deal more pleasing, to God. If the average man is made in God's image, then a man such as Beethoven or Aristotle is plainly superior to God, and so God may be jealous of him, and eager to see his superiority perish with his bodily frame.

-H.L. Mencken
User avatar
Plekhanov
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3991
Joined: 2004-04-01 11:09pm
Location: Mercia

Post by Plekhanov »

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:I've said it for years- most of Africa would have been better off if it had remained a British Colony.
No most of Africa would have been better off if we’d never colonised them.
User avatar
The Yosemite Bear
Mostly Harmless Nutcase (Requiescat in Pace)
Posts: 35211
Joined: 2002-07-21 02:38am
Location: Dave's Not Here Man

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

I thought for a second someone had been reading too many comics and added "Invader Zim" to the list of enemys of The US.....

actually, most of Africa is a hell hole, and not looking to get anybetter anytime soon, I am halfway expecting some Kurtz type to waltz in....
Image

The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
User avatar
Einhander Sn0m4n
Insane Railgunner
Posts: 18630
Joined: 2002-10-01 05:51am
Location: Louisiana... or Dagobah. You know, where Yoda lives.

Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

The Yosemite Bear wrote:I thought for a second someone had been reading too many comics and added "Invader Zim" to the list of enemys of The US.....

actually, most of Africa is a hell hole, and not looking to get anybetter anytime soon, I am halfway expecting some Kurtz type to waltz in....
Kurtz?
Image Image
User avatar
Plekhanov
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3991
Joined: 2004-04-01 11:09pm
Location: Mercia

Post by Plekhanov »

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:
The Yosemite Bear wrote:I thought for a second someone had been reading too many comics and added "Invader Zim" to the list of enemys of The US.....

actually, most of Africa is a hell hole, and not looking to get anybetter anytime soon, I am halfway expecting some Kurtz type to waltz in....
Kurtz?
Brando’s character in Apocalypse Now
User avatar
TheDarkling
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4768
Joined: 2002-07-04 10:34am

Post by TheDarkling »

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:I've said it for years- most of Africa would have been better off if it had remained a British Colony.
Same here.

Of course the Germans had to go and make a mess of things. :roll:
User avatar
Joe
Space Cowboy
Posts: 17314
Joined: 2002-08-22 09:58pm
Location: Wishing I was in Athens, GA

Post by Joe »

Africa isn't a shithole because of colonialism, or capitalism, or socialism, or communism, or any ism. That's just how the place is.
Image

BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman

I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
User avatar
Tribun
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2164
Joined: 2003-05-25 10:02am
Location: Lübeck, Germany
Contact:

Post by Tribun »

They do the same things they have done for thousands of years...only on a bigger scale now. Of course there are much more of them now to massacre each other.
User avatar
Plekhanov
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3991
Joined: 2004-04-01 11:09pm
Location: Mercia

Post by Plekhanov »

Joe wrote:Africa isn't a shithole because of colonialism, or capitalism, or socialism, or communism, or any ism. That's just how the place is.
“That’s just how the place is” well thanks for that tremendous insight, any other great geopolitical issues you’d like to sum up for us whilst you’re on a such a roll?
Tribun wrote:They do the same things they have done for thousands of years...only on a bigger scale now. Of course there are much more of them now to massacre each other.
We Europeans have had just over 50 years without a major war before that we were killing each other just as energetically as Africans are now we aren’t that different from “them”.
User avatar
Joe
Space Cowboy
Posts: 17314
Joined: 2002-08-22 09:58pm
Location: Wishing I was in Athens, GA

Post by Joe »

“That’s just how the place is” well thanks for that tremendous insight, any other great geopolitical issues you’d like to sum up for us whilst you’re on a such a roll?
The point is you can't lay the fact that Africa is a shithole, always has been a shithole, and more than likely always will be a shithole at the feet of white Europeans. If anything certain countries actually left their colonies better than they were when they arrived.
Image

BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman

I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
User avatar
Plekhanov
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3991
Joined: 2004-04-01 11:09pm
Location: Mercia

Post by Plekhanov »

Joe wrote: The point is you can't lay the fact that Africa is a shithole, always has been a shithole, and more than likely always will be a shithole at the feet of white Europeans.

So Africa has “always has been a shithole” has it? That’s one hell of a sweeping statement would you care to back it up.
If anything certain countries actually left their colonies better than they were when they arrived.

What do you mean when you say the colonial powers left the “colonies better than they were when they arrived “? In what way were the societies we (by we I mean the European Colonial powers) left behind “better” than the ones we invaded?
User avatar
Joe
Space Cowboy
Posts: 17314
Joined: 2002-08-22 09:58pm
Location: Wishing I was in Athens, GA

Post by Joe »

So Africa has “always has been a shithole” has it? That’s one hell of a sweeping statement would you care to back it up.
I'm referring to Sub-Saharan Africa, and I do not have to back up common knowledge; absent a small amount of developed civilizations along the coast and in a few other areas Sub-Saharan Africa has always been an undeveloped region. Not that there's anything wrong with Africans in particular, it's more the fault of simple geography than anything else. A lack of river valleys is the most likely explanation for the failure of Sub-Saharan Africa to develop independently.
What do you mean when you say the colonial powers left the “colonies better than they were when they arrived “? In what way were the societies we (by we I mean the European Colonial powers) left behind “better” than the ones we invaded?
I mean exactly that; better infrastructure, better standards of living, better economies, and the British managed to smackdown the African slave trade pretty good (although they never eliminated it completely). I don't mean to generalize, of course; the Belgians managed to fuck up the Congo even more than it was fucked up when they got there, and that's saying something. But the impact of colonialism in many countries is not necessarily of a negative nature as you seem to be insisting.
Image

BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman

I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29842
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

Post by MKSheppard »

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/interna ... =789412004

CASH-STRAPPED Zimbabwe might be dogged by chronic food shortages, power blackouts, water cuts and fuel queues, but the government is putting its money where its mouth is - into its latest propaganda album.

Back2Black, a CD of pro-land reform songs written by Zimbabwe’s outspoken information minister, Jonathan Moyo, is being launched today amid pomp and fanfare at the country’s once-buzzing Victoria Falls luxury resort.

Guests, many of them from president Robert Mugabe’s ruling Zimbabwe African National Union - Patriotic Front (ZANU-PF) party, and approved reporters are said to be booked on flights this morning from Harare to Victoria Falls.

Mr Moyo’s Department of Information and Publicity is believed to be footing much of the cost of the launch, estimated at several million Zimbabwean dollars.

Guests are being offered lunch and dinner at the five-star Elephant Hills Hotel, one report said.

The 26-song double album, featuring tracks supporting Mr Mugabe’s controversial land reform programme, will be launched during a river cruise at noon, the privately owned Standard newspaper reported, with the video being launched at 8pm.

State-run television, which Mr Moyo controls with an iron grip, has been gushing in its praise of the new release.

The album is a "delight and should capture the ear and heart of a wide audience", the Zimbabwe Broadcasting Corporation said in a news bulletin on Thursday.

Regular viewers of Zimbabwean television might beg to differ. During his four-year stint as information minister, Mr Moyo has churned out numerous propaganda songs - and, it seems, charmed his way into Mr Mugabe’s heart.

The catchy tunes are usually aired every half an hour on state radio, up to 72 times a day.

**************

Yes, Zim is saveable, instead of helping the people, the gov't is blowing
millions on this shit. :roll:
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13073
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Post by Elheru Aran »

Plekhanov wrote:
Joe wrote: The point is you can't lay the fact that Africa is a shithole, always has been a shithole, and more than likely always will be a shithole at the feet of white Europeans.

So Africa has “always has been a shithole” has it? That’s one hell of a sweeping statement would you care to back it up.
If anything certain countries actually left their colonies better than they were when they arrived.

What do you mean when you say the colonial powers left the “colonies better than they were when they arrived “? In what way were the societies we (by we I mean the European Colonial powers) left behind “better” than the ones we invaded?
Plekhanov--

Okay, since Joe didn't give you too much of an answer, I'll be nice and give you the detailed version...

There are several reasons why, as he termed it, Africa was a "shithole" before the European colonists arrived. While of course there were several great civilizations, they were quite in the minority... the great majority of Africa was primarily tiny tribal kingdoms arrayed mainly along the coastal regions, with the interior largely empty due to geography (sheer size) and minimal population density that was primarily concentrated upon the coastal regions. This population, with little exception, was in a stage of development that ranged from Copper Age to early Iron Age, with corresdeponding "advances" in civilization.

This state of affairs would very likely have continued for a long time, provided that they were left alone.

And guess what? There's no chance in hell that they would've been. Even if Europe had taken absolutely no interest in Africa, the Arabs sure had plenty of interest, primarily due to the flourishing native slave trade. This trade was not engendered by the Arabs; it had been going on its own for quite a while. The Arabs were merely exploiting it, pitting the tribes against each other for this purpose.

Not only did they bring slavery and its associated evils-- they also brought Islam. While this is certainly a "religion of peace", its followers aren't always peaceful; in those days, conversion was by the sword. Africa's tribal religions would have been devastated, its civilizations wiped out in battle against the Arabs and their native, converted allies. Africa would have become fairly similar to the Ottoman Empire, but at a much lower level of technology; it would've been the slum regions of the Islamic realm.

While European colonialism was not necessarily great, it was infinitely better than the state that the natives had been in. You cannot use the Belgian Congo as the sole example of colonialism; Leopold's rule over that area was absolutely not the example followed by the British and French.

The British brought education, health care, industry, advances in agriculture, and more to their colonies. These are things that the Africans, on their own, at their level of technology and cultural development, wouldn't have had a dream of achieving for centuries, at minimum.

I should know all this-- I lived in Nigeria, West Africa, a former British colony, for almost 13 years. The concept of the "noble savage" is a rather cruel illusion, one that has been perpetuated for years. I have experienced Africa firsthand, and, well, all I can say is that it's a very good thing for the Africans that the British came when they did.... be proud of your country for once, Plekhanov!
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
Axis Kast
Vympel's Bitch
Posts: 3893
Joined: 2003-03-02 10:45am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Contact:

Post by Axis Kast »

As I’ve said on other threads regarding this topic, the true horror of Zimbabwe is that what was once the home of one of Africa’s most promising states would probably have been better off had the whites pulled strings even after leaving power. How sad it is to say that Africa today would probably be more democratic, if only for distinctly undemocratic activities in its past.

Frankly, if it mattered to us at all, we could end much of Zimbabwe’s crisis with a bullet. Mugabe is perhaps one of the only leaders in the world whose death would bring virtually no external consequences, but certainly bear less dangerous results for his people than a continuation of power.


And as an aside, I should point out that the Belgians were not the only relentless colonialists. The Germans are widely considered to have established the most effective cooperation with the natives during their short stay on the African continent, as well as some of the most hardy and sustainable white settlements. On the other hand, they pacified revolt by routinely slaughtering virtually every tribe they met for over a decade after their initial arrival, and reaped the benefits that came with the cooperation of cowed African tribes for only three or four years.
Post Reply