I've heard of partisan, but this is just silly

[Talon Karrde]

Lets try this Mike:

Defintion of Red Herring Falacy: A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic.

I brought up the point in the original point: "You bring up a point that states Heinz sells to other countries, thus, they should be allowed to make factories in other countries. I bring up the point that other companies do the same thing, yet are blasted by the Kerry administration and blamed on Bush, yet they sare somehow unrelated?"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me one goes with the other. If one company is given a pass to do this, why aren't all that do this same practice?

[Gil Hamilton]

There is a big difference, Karrde, in setting up bottling plants in foriegn countries and outsourcing. A Heinz bottling plant in Europe hires European workers and then sells it in European markets, mostly because it doesn't make a lot of sense to set up bottling plants in America and exporting millions and millions of bottles of ketchup to Europe (Heinz sells alot of ketchup all over the world).

Outsourcing is a bit different. If Heinz closed up all the bottling plants and moved them all to Cambodia, or someplace, because it's much cheaper to play Cambodians than American workers, that's outsourcing, because they are moving jobs overseas.

[Darth Wong]

Lets try this Mike:

Defintion of Red Herring Falacy: A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic.

I brought up the point in the original point: "You bring up a point that states Heinz sells to other countries, thus, they should be allowed to make factories in other countries. I bring up the point that other companies do the same thing, yet are blasted by the Kerry administration and blamed on Bush, yet they sare somehow unrelated?"

It doesn't help your case to lie about what you said. In the original post (to which a red herring accusation was thrown), you talked about all companies which outsource, not just companies which have been singled out by Kerry. If you can find examples of companies which have been singled out by Kerry for doing exactly the same thing Heinz is doing, go right ahead.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me one goes with the other. If one company is given a pass to do this, why aren't all that do this same practice?

Prove that it's actually the same practice and that Kerry has indeed singled out companies doing it.

PS. This still does not address the fact that your original rebuttal (to which I responded) was a joke. You can't accuse someone of ignoring a point by claiming that it's fallacious; if it really is fallacious, then it's not a valid point, so you can't just blow off an accusation of fallacy like that.

[Talon Karrde]

There is a big difference, Karrde, in setting up bottling plants in foriegn countries and outsourcing. A Heinz bottling plant in Europe hires European workers and then sells it in European markets, mostly because it doesn't make a lot of sense to set up bottling plants in America and exporting millions and millions of bottles of ketchup to Europe (Heinz sells alot of ketchup all over the world).

Outsourcing is a bit different. If Heinz closed up all the bottling plants and moved them all to Cambodia, or someplace, because it's much cheaper to play Cambodians than American workers, that's outsourcing, because they are moving jobs overseas.

And I realize and accept your point. However, it seems that whenever a company moves any factories overseas, they are immediately accused of outsourcing jobs. I would be surprised if companies that build factories over seas sell ONLY to the United States.

[Gil Hamilton]

And I realize and accept your point. However, it seems that whenever a company moves any factories overseas, they are immediately accused of outsourcing jobs. I would be surprised if companies that build factories over seas sell ONLY to the United States.

Well, like me ask you this. How many people in Cambodia are buying shoes sewn together in Cambodian Nike factories? The bulk companies that move overseas aren't doing it because they are selling those products to the locals, they are doing it because they can get away with doing way with such frivolous expenses like, you know, paying their workers a decent wage and safety standards that they've have to comply with in America. Their markets, however, is here in America and other Western countries.

[Iceberg]

Lets try this Mike:

Defintion of Red Herring Falacy: A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic.

I brought up the point in the original point: "You bring up a point that states Heinz sells to other countries, thus, they should be allowed to make factories in other countries. I bring up the point that other companies do the same thing, yet are blasted by the Kerry administration and blamed on Bush, yet they sare somehow unrelated?"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me one goes with the other. If one company is given a pass to do this, why aren't all that do this same practice?

Setting up local production for local consumption (which is what agricultural companies tend to do because the only real alternative for them is to ship their (perishable) product by air, which is expensive) is good business practice.

Moving your production facilities AWAY from the area where your goods are consumed because you can get away with fucking Labor up the ass, thus allowing you to lower the cost of production enough to make long-distance shipping profitable, THAT is unethical (and also possibly illegal, depending on the particulars).

[His Divine Shadow]

There is a big difference, Karrde, in setting up bottling plants in foriegn countries and outsourcing. A Heinz bottling plant in Europe hires European workers and then sells it in European markets, mostly because it doesn't make a lot of sense to set up bottling plants in America and exporting millions and millions of bottles of ketchup to Europe (Heinz sells alot of ketchup all over the world).

There's a bottle of Heinz Ketchup in our fridge for example.
Heinz really is a good ketchup, switched to it a few years ago.