*Puts head through monitor* - The Stupidity BUUUUUUUURNS

[MKSheppard]

Kerry's brainstorm!

Negotiate a Global Ban On Production Of Material For Nuclear Weapons. There is strong international support for a ban on all production of highly enriched uranium and plutonium for use in nuclear weapons that would permanently cap the world's nuclear weapons stockpiles. Yet the Bush administration has failed to move forward, keeping this initiative frozen in a lengthy inter-agency review process. As president, John Kerry will immediately ask the members of the U.N. Security Council to formally pledge never again to produce such material for weapons. He will then lead a broad international coalition to verifiably ban production of such materials by any nation.

AAAAAAAAARGH!

Great way to turn the US Stockpile into worthless pieces of shit as the
plutonium and uranium decays! Eventually you're going to have to
replace the shit with newly manufactured stuff, the stuff doesn't last
forever!

End Development Of The New Generation Of Nuclear Weapons. The Bush administration is spending millions of dollars developing bunker-busters and mini-nukes, a new generation of more "usable" nuclear weapons. As president, John Kerry will signal to the world that America is serious about stopping proliferation by putting an end to these programs.

Nevermind that these micro-nukes would be cleaner than the weapons
we currently have; the current trend in nuke design is for ultra-low
fallout weapons.

Prevent Iran From Developing Nuclear Weapons. A nuclear armed Iran is an unacceptable risk to the national security of the United States and our allies in the region. While we have been preoccupied in Iraq, Iran has reportedly been moving ahead with its nuclear program. We can no longer sit on the sidelines and leave the negotiations to the Europeans. It is critical that we work with our allies to resolve these issues and lead a global effort to prevent Iran from obtaining the technology necessary to build nuclear weapons. Iran claims that its nuclear program is only to meet its domestic energy needs. John Kerry's proposal would call their bluff by organizing a group of states to offer Iran the nuclear fuel they need for peaceful purposes and take back the spent fuel so they cannot divert it to build a weapon. If Iran does not accept this offer, their true motivations will be clear. Under the current circumstances, John Kerry believes we should support the International Atomic Energy Agency's (IAEA) efforts to discern the full extent of Iran's nuclear program, while pushing Iran to agree to a verifiable and permanent suspension of its enrichment and reprocessing programs. If this process fails, we must lead the effort to ensure that the IAEA takes this issue to the Security Council for action.

...... *smashes head through monitor*

So we're going to GIVE uranium to fucking Iran of all people? I seem to
recall how giving North Korea simple things like fuel oil stopped them from
developing nukes.....oh wait.....it didn't.

[Nathan F]

Ah, more intelligence emminating from the far left.

"NEWKS AH BAHD!"

[aerius]

So Kerry's actually a member of the Green Party. Figures.

[Natorgator]

For those of us who aren't nuclear weapons wankers, this could be actually be a good thing.

[18-Till-I-Die]

I dont know, a lot of the stigma about nuclear power might disappear if people didnt associate nuclear power with nukes, so this might be good actually. It might erase some of the anti-nuclear stigma and allow people to finally get past Hiroshima and Three Mile Island. Not instantly, of course, but a man can dream.

[aerius]

For those of us who aren't nuclear weapons wankers, this could be actually be a good thing.

See the "It's good in theory" thread in SLaM. It sounds like a lovely idea on paper, but it's based on flawed premises, it assumes that other nations are nice & co-operative and that the UN can actually do something. Now if you think that's true, you need to put down the fucking crackpipe.

[Ory'hara]

John Kerry is offically insane.

[J]

I just realized where I've heard something like this before - Ramsey Clark & McNamara in the TBOverse.

[MKSheppard]

I just realized where I've heard something like this before - Ramsey Clark & McNamara in the TBOverse.

Damnation, stop using Jmac's account, aerius!

[18-Till-I-Die]

What is TBOverse? A sci-fi series or something?

[J]

Damnation, stop using Jmac's account, aerius!

Hey you! Girls can read alternative military history too you know, in fact it's an interest of mine since I did study international relations, history, & politics for my degree. The Duchess isn't the only female who enjoys this stuff.

[Darth Wong]

AAAAAAAAARGH!

Great way to turn the US Stockpile into worthless pieces of shit as the plutonium and uranium decays! Eventually you're going to have to replace the shit with newly manufactured stuff, the stuff doesn't last forever!

I think that's the idea, Shep. Gradual nuclear disarmament.

Nevermind that these micro-nukes would be cleaner than the weapons we currently have; the current trend in nuke design is for ultra-low fallout weapons.

How does that work? How are you supposed to reduce fallout with a weapon that won't spread its nuclear materials over a large area?

...... *smashes head through monitor*

So we're going to GIVE uranium to fucking Iran of all people? I seem to recall how giving North Korea simple things like fuel oil stopped them from developing nukes.....oh wait.....it didn't.

The idea is not as crazy as it sounds, Shep. If Iran can already get unenriched uranium (which it sounds like they can), the real nuclear proliferation threat is their enrichment equipment once they get it up and running. But at the same time, it is problematic to forbid any but first-world countries from having nuclear reactors for power generation. The scheme, therefore, is to forbid them having enrichment technologies while giving them low-grade uranium which has been enriched just enough to be used in a reactor, but nowhere near enough to be used in a weapon. If they have no enrichment technologies, they won't be able to use it in a weapon. And if they do, then it doesn't matter if we give them the partially enriched stuff, does it? The idea is to take away their pretext for claiming a legitimate reason to possess uranium enrichment equipment.

Of course, we could always go with your preferred "invade and kill 'em all" solution, but that is not exactly without its own problems.

[aerius]

What is TBOverse? A sci-fi series or something?

You do not know of the TBOverse? Do you live under a rock or something? Click the link below and go read it.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=40521

[SirNitram]

Control Iran's supply of reactor-grade uranium? A completely logical plan that prevents them from gaining nuclear weapons. Of course, retards fail to understand this and flip into the exact sort of tirades we get from the Islamofascists, with a few words exchanged.

[MKSheppard]

I think that's the idea, Shep. Gradual nuclear disarmament.

And for some strange reason, I think the Russians would just ignore it, due to their
massive military budgetary problems and the pressing need to defend the motherland
against the Chinese horde. We'd only be disarming ourselves.

How does that work? How are you supposed to reduce fallout with a weapon that won't spread its nuclear materials over a large area?

You can make nuclear weapons that are very low on fallout; we discovered the Neutron bomb by accident
trying to lower fallout on our wepons. Or vice versa. I can't remember exactly.

The idea is not as crazy as it sounds, Shep. If Iran can already get unenriched uranium (which it sounds like they can), the real nuclear

proliferation threat is their enrichment equipment once they get it up and running. But at the same time, it is problematic to forbid any but first-world

countries from having nuclear reactors for power generation. The scheme, therefore, is to forbid them having enrichment technologies while giving

them low-grade uranium which has been enriched just enough to be used in a reactor, but nowhere near enough to be used in a weapon.

Never mind that back on July 31, they broke a promise not to build enrichment centrifuges.

TEHRAN, July 31 (Reuters) - Iran has resumed building centrifuges that Washington says are intended to enrich uranium to weapons-grade for

use in atomic warheads, Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi said on Saturday.

Iran's decision backtracks from a pledge made last year to the European Union's "big three" - Britain, France and Germany - to suspend

enrichment-related activities.

"We have started building centrifuges," Kharrazi told a news conference.

If they have no enrichment technologies, they won't be able to use it in a weapon. And if they do, then it doesn't matter if we give them the

partially enriched stuff, does it?

They've got enrichment technology, they've admitted it openly. So giving them partially enriched uranium is not exactly a good deal.
Remember, we tried to buy North Korea of all places off with Fuel Oil, and that didn't work.

BTW: Reactor grade Uranium is 8% enriched. No problem! Just run them through the battery of centrifuges Iran has; centrifuges run
at about 4% efficiency, requiring about 30 runs to get bomb-grade Uranium. Why in god's name are we giving the nuclear equivalent of
smokeless powder and hornady bullets to a well documented felon who we KNOW has a reloading setup in his basement?

The idea is to take away their pretext for claiming a legitimate reason to possess uranium enrichment equipment.

Seriously, what the fuck does Iran need with nuclear power when they have the worlds SECOND LARGEST natural
gas reserves, and the third largest oil reserves? The cost/benefit ratio of building a nuke plant for energy in the middle east makes
no sense at all. They're literally burning 1 shitload of natural gas everyday as part of normal oil pumping, and they don't have to worry
about anyone cutting them off from a source of energy, which is the prime motivator behind all of the logical nuclear energy projects
in places such as France and Japan, not making the environment look pretty.

Of course, we could always go with your preferred "invade and kill 'em all" solution, but that is not exactly without its own problems.

NUKEY NUKEY NUKEY

[MKSheppard]

Control Iran's supply of reactor-grade uranium?

Nevermind that they have their own centrifuges and can enrich to whatever level they so desire to, I don't see the point of giving them
partially enriched Uranium to make their bomb program easier.

[SirNitram]

Control Iran's supply of reactor-grade uranium?

Nevermind that they have their own centrifuges and can enrich to whatever level they so desire to, I don't see the point of giving them
partially enriched Uranium to make their bomb program easier.

Do you need smaller words? It removes the only excuse they have to keep those active.

[MKSheppard]

Do you need smaller words? It removes the only excuse they have to keep those active.

And makes them much closer to gaining an operational device by
signifcantly reducing the amount of enrichment needed.

[Darth Wong]

Control Iran's supply of reactor-grade uranium?

Nevermind that they have their own centrifuges and can enrich to whatever level they so desire to, I don't see the point of giving them
partially enriched Uranium to make their bomb program easier.

You're missing the point here. They claim they need to enrich uranium for the purpose of nuclear power generation. The idea is to call their bluff and say "OK, destroy your enrichment equipment and we'll give you reactor-grade uranium, so I guess you don't need enrichment equipment any more."

[aerius]

Control Iran's supply of reactor-grade uranium? A completely logical plan that prevents them from gaining nuclear weapons. Of course, retards fail to understand this and flip into the exact sort of tirades we get from the Islamofascists, with a few words exchanged.

Assuming you can actually control the supply and they're nice enough to give back every last kg of spent fuel that they're supposed to. Hypothetically speaking, what happens when Iran diverts a couple truckloads of the fuel you've kindly given them to their centrifuges for enrichment? What are we going to do, cry to the UN? What's the UN going to do, write up some pansy-ass declaration condemning Iran?

Unless Kerry goes "if a single gram of that uranium goes missing we'll bomb the living fuck out of you" and more importantly follows through with it, Iran is basically laughing all the way to the bank.

[MKSheppard]

The idea is to call their bluff and say "OK, destroy your enrichment equipment and we'll give you reactor-grade uranium, so I guess you don't need enrichment equipment any more."

And we all know how honest they are. Yes, Sort of like how the Soviet
Union destroyed all of those pesky IRBMs.

[Darth Wong]

Hypothetically speaking, what happens when Iran diverts a couple truckloads of the fuel you've kindly given them to their centrifuges for enrichment?

What part of "they get the fuel in exchane for destruction of their centrifuges" do you not understand, exactly? This takes away their excuse for having them.

[Darth Wong]

The idea is to call their bluff and say "OK, destroy your enrichment equipment and we'll give you reactor-grade uranium, so I guess you don't need enrichment equipment any more."

And we all know how honest they are. Yes, Sort of like how the Soviet Union destroyed all of those pesky IRBMs.

Again, you don't get it. It's not about Iranian honesty; it's about exposing their dishonesty when they refuse to destroy their centrifuges even after being offered pre-processed reactor-grade uranium.

[MKSheppard]

Again, you don't get it. It's not about Iranian honesty; it's about exposing their dishonesty when they refuse to destroy their centrifuges even after being offered pre-processed reactor-grade uranium.

And giving them the enriched U328 significantly speeds up their timetable
to obtaining an operational device and joining the Nuclear Club. Upon
which we can't do jack fucking shit about them.

[Beowulf]

And if they destroy some of their centrifuges, claiming that those are all of them?