No one seems to care about the enemy soldiers...

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2004-10-13 05:39pm

According to the Iraq Body Count Database, between 13,000 and 15,000 Iraqi civilians have died during the war. All the casualties they list are documented in the press, generally AP or Reuters. There are over 36,000 civilians missing or dead, based on nationwide surveys, and 41,000 US soldiers believe they killed at least one Iraqi civilian. The biggest single-source killer of Iraqi civilians has been cluster munitions, which tend to have a few "bomblets" that don't explode, creating an impromptu minefield wherever they're dropped.

General Tommy Franks gave an estimate for the 6 weeks of combat operations of 30,000 Iraqi military dead. At least 124,000 American soldiers have claimed to have killed an Iraqi, which may be where the original post's claim originated. Estimates by doing surveys of hospitals and analyses of military records lead to numbers ranging from 6,500 to 45,000 Iraqi military casualties.

So far, there have been 12 Iraqi civilians killed for every American military member killed.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2004-10-13 07:08pm

Sokartawi being an ass HoSed.

tharkûn · Post by **tharkûn** » 2004-10-13 08:19pm

The Kernel wrote:
frigidmagi wrote: Has to non-combatents, the answer is yes, we should give a damn. However, it's war people are going to die and alot of them are not going to deserve death. That's what makes it a horrorible thing. Yes, normal Iraqi citizens that want nothing more than to live our their livies in peace are getting blown up by car bombs, caught in cross fires, hit by sharpel, the list goes on and on.
There are certain unpreventable things that will happend to civilians during this conflict (terrorist bombings and such), but the civilian casualities I'm talking about don't involve these. I'm talking about when the US finds an insurgent stronghold inside a city and decides to send in fucking air strikes against it, which is obviously wrong. Don't you get that as of now, the United States is the law in Iraq? That means that their people are under our protection and to indiscriminately kill them is akin to the National Guard inside the US demolishing a building that contains Militia while there are civilians still inside.

By deciding that civilian casualities are acceptable we are in effect saying that an Iraqi life is worth less than an American one.

Either that or that other options are likely to leave more Iraqis dead than blowing the building.

There are no good options here - leave the building alone and the scum inside will bomb more civillians ... and we've seen far more deadly car bombs than US 'precision' strikes. Assault the building and there will be a firefight; while I'm sure US soldiers will exercise as much fire control as possible the bastards inside won't. If the insurgents opt for the Jenin methodology they will lace the approaches to their stronghold with improvised mines and explosives. Of course the US could seige the stronghold and try to starve the bastards out, but these insurgents have zero problems passing themselves off as civillians either to smuggle food in or themselves out.

I'm not going to say every airstrike is the best tactical choice to prevent the deaths of Iraqi non-combatants; because frankly I haven't a damn clue what the situation on the ground is. It is, however, a clear cut case of damned if you damned if you don't.

As far as caring for the other side's "soldiers"; I'd be quite happy if the lot of them were strung up by their balls. These are the despicable bastards who time their attacks so they can use school children as cover. These are scum who blithely wipe their asses all over the Geneva convention. In any civilised country people who commit aggravated homicide in the process of attempted extortion would be locked up and the key thrown away. If I had a magic button to push that would kill every last one of the bastards without unintended consequence biting my ass, I'd push it twice to be sure.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-10-13 08:22pm

I'm aware of operational realities gentlemen, I fought there. I simplily stated that

A: People should give a damn when a little Iraqi child gets blown up by a remote car bomb, or a farmer get's filled with lead for not pulling off the road fast enough to suit certain thugs.

B In War People die and they don't die soft or easy.