USS San Fran Damage Pictures

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2005-01-27 04:51pm

Patrick Degan wrote: From what I see in the photos, it looks as if the forward pressure bulkhead is intact, but if it's been deformed even if there wasn't a breach, the boat may be unsalvagable for further service; at least not without a major reconstruction job and as has been pointed out it may be easier and cheaper simply to build a new sub.

She's Flight 1 688. She's likely near the end of her service life anyway.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2005-01-27 04:53pm

LadyTevar wrote:I'm still wondering how it ran into a seamount, period. Wouldn't sonar have bounced off the seamount and told them *something* was there, uncharted or not?

If he was running active, screaming HERE I AM every twenty seconds, otherwise as per SOP he was most likley running passive only, relying on charts to stear clear of any undersea problems,

And passive like it sounds, is well passive, your listening for noise

Undersea mountians rarley make that much noise making it a brick wall in the fog so to speak

EmperorChrostas the Cruel · Post by **EmperorChrostas the Cruel** » 2005-01-27 05:04pm

If they were doing any kind of exercise, war game, or simply silent running, activly pinging gives their position away, and thus isn't done. Navigation would be by passive systems like GPS and inertial guidance. (Ded reconning)
The ocean is so large and well mapped, this is freakshow rare event, possibly the first of it's kind? I have heared of subs hitting other ships and subs, but never of an uncharted seamount. A Japanese fishing boat comes to mind, along with two subs playing hide and seek.

Marksist · Post by **Marksist** » 2005-01-27 05:10pm

The ocean is so large and well mapped, this is freakshow rare event, possibly the first of it's kind? I have heared of subs hitting other ships and subs, but never of an uncharted seamount.

I don't really want to start this debate back from the last thread on this, but, if this is such a freak accident, why will the Captain be punished so harshly? Would anyone have been able to avoid that?

Burak Gazan · Post by **Burak Gazan** » 2005-01-27 05:26pm

She was on a speed run to Brisbane, Australia when the mishap occured - apparently had just dived to 400 feet and gone to flank speed when she plowed into the side of the mountain

And submarines have hit underwater mountains before:

USS Ray (SSN-653)

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2005-01-27 05:27pm

Marksist wrote:
The ocean is so large and well mapped, this is freakshow rare event, possibly the first of it's kind? I have heared of subs hitting other ships and subs, but never of an uncharted seamount.
I don't really want to start this debate back from the last thread on this, but, if this is such a freak accident, why will the Captain be punished so harshly? Would anyone have been able to avoid that?

He's punished because a billion dollar boat was broken on his watch. Is it fair? Probably not. The Navy doesn't tend to be terribly forgiving when ships get broken and banged up, regardless of fault, official or not.

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2005-01-27 07:10pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:She's Flight 1 688. She's likely near the end of her service life anyway.

Not necessarly: IIRC, San Fran was one of the Flight 1 boats lucky enough to be refueled rather than scrapped when it's reactor fuel was spent, and according to the the ship list on GlobalSecurity, she wasn't scheduled to be retired until 2017...

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-01-27 08:08pm

LadyTevar wrote:I'm still wondering how it ran into a seamount, period. Wouldn't sonar have bounced off the seamount and told them *something* was there, uncharted or not?

She was doing a speed run and 30+ knots when it happened. Navigational sonar does not work at such high speeds. When doing a speed run you steer clear of all known seamounts. Hence the ship running into an uncharted mount.

The captain isn't going to be court martialed because it was an accident he couldn't have realisticaly avoided, but he is never going to see again and definately won't ever make flag rank. If he is a commander, he probably won't even make captains rank.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-01-27 09:39pm

Marksist wrote:
The ocean is so large and well mapped, this is freakshow rare event, possibly the first of it's kind? I have heared of subs hitting other ships and subs, but never of an uncharted seamount.
I don't really want to start this debate back from the last thread on this, but, if this is such a freak accident, why will the Captain be punished so harshly? Would anyone have been able to avoid that?

Because there are more than enough Commanders and Captains to promote that haven't run their ships aground. Not really fair, but not every Captain can make a Flag either. The ups and downs of a large pool to draw from.

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2005-01-27 11:46pm

I have to wonder: what would have happened if it had been a Flight 2 or 3 boat that had this collision? After all, the VLS tubes on those types are right inside the bow tanks (which were gutted on the San Fran): would there be any danger of the TLAMs getting set off? Also, the hull buckle is right where the bow planes are on a Flt. 3 boat: that could have easily jammed them, and I'm guessing the only way the San Fran was able to surface without it's bow tanks was by using it's planes...