Two Killed at U.S. Embassy on Eve of Vote

[Gustav32Vasa]

This doesnt look good.

[Lord Zentei]

It was only to be expected that the asshats would try something on the eve of the election. The important thing now is to stay the course and make sure that the elections are not derailed regardless of any bombs, as it is the election they fear most.

[Durandal]

It was only to be expected that the asshats would try something on the eve of the election. The important thing now is to stay the course and make sure that the elections are not derailed regardless of any bombs, as it is the election they fear most.

Why would they fear the elections? They're not even electing a president. It's just the latest symbolic gesture that the Bush administration promises, if carried out, will be the turning point.

[mauldooku]

Just read a follow-up to this article. Several insurgent groups have now threatened any Iraqi who votes in these elections:

Iraq to Vote Shadowed by Threat of Bloodbath

Sat Jan 29, 2005 04:24 PM ET

By Matt Spetalnick

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Insurgents threatened a bloodbath on Sunday when Iraqis go to the polls in an election intended to unite the country and quell violence but which could instead foment sectarian strife.

Iraq was under security lockdown for Iraq's first multi-party elections in nearly half a century.

Borders were sealed, airports closed and only official vehicles allowed on the streets after heavy bloodshed on the eve of voting, including a bold rocket strike that killed two Americans at the U.S. embassy compound in Baghdad's Green Zone.

Insurgents also killed 17 Iraqis and an American soldier on Saturday.

A suicide bomber struck a U.S.-Iraqi security center in the town of Khanaqin, northeast of the Iraqi capital. The U.S. military said three Iraqi soldiers and five civilians were killed in that incident.

The embassy attack deepened fears of an insurgent blitz on election day and demonstrated their ability to strike at the heart of the interim government and American power in their vast fortified complex on the west bank of the river Tigris.

It could also worsen fears of Iraq's 14.2 million registered voters about casting ballots in the country's first election since Saddam Hussein was toppled in a U.S.-led invasion in 2003.

Iraq's 60 percent-majority Shi'ites, oppressed for decades under Saddam, are expected to dominate the polls. Kurds, who make up nearly a fifth of Iraqis, want a result that enables them to enshrine their autonomous rule in the north.

Insurgent groups, including a jihadist faction led by al Qaeda's leader in Iraq, Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, have vowed to bomb "infidel" polling stations and kill anyone who dares to vote.

"For the last time, we warn that (Sunday) will be bloody for the Christians and Jews and their mercenaries and whoever takes part in the (election) game of America and Allawi," Zarqawi's faction said in a statement posted on an Islamist Web site.

Many Iraqis promised to brave the threats when polls open at 7 a.m. (11 p.m. EST Saturday), but other were afraid of being targeted at voting places or afterwards. Indelible blue ink that will be daubed on their index fingers to prevent multiple voting could mark them for death.

Emphasis mine. Source: Reuters

Those fuckers. Even if you buy the morally bankrupt logic of killing American soldiers who're trying to improve your own shithole country, how the FUCK can you possibly justify killing your own citizens? You know, the ones you're supposed to be freeing from the 'tryanny of the Americans'?

[Lord Zentei]

It was only to be expected that the asshats would try something on the eve of the election. The important thing now is to stay the course and make sure that the elections are not derailed regardless of any bombs, as it is the election they fear most.

Why would they fear the elections? They're not even electing a president. It's just the latest symbolic gesture that the Bush administration promises, if carried out, will be the turning point.

They fear the elections because that carries the possibility (though not the certainty) that a native government with a mandate comes into power, and wherein their extremist positions carry no weight.

[Sea Skimmer]

Those fuckers. Even if you buy the morally bankrupt logic of killing American soldiers who're trying to improve your own shithole country, how the FUCK can you possibly justify killing your own citizens? You know, the ones you're supposed to be freeing from the 'tryanny of the Americans'?

If they vote they are collaborating and thus must die. It's perfectly reasonable from the standpoint of the insurgents; don't vote and stay at home and you'll be fine. This sort of activity is nothing new to guerrilla warfare, or the US experience in fighting such wars.

[mauldooku]

Those fuckers. Even if you buy the morally bankrupt logic of killing American soldiers who're trying to improve your own shithole country, how the FUCK can you possibly justify killing your own citizens? You know, the ones you're supposed to be freeing from the 'tryanny of the Americans'?

If they vote they are collaborating and thus must die. It's perfectly reasonable from the standpoint of the insurgents; don't vote and stay at home and you'll be fine. This sort of activity is nothing new to guerrilla warfare, or the US experience in fighting such wars.

Point. On the other hand, from a public relations angle, how can this possibly win them the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people?

[Wicked Pilot]

On the other hand, from a public relations angle, how can this possibly win them the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people?

To those who think similiarily they're simply killing traitors. For everyone else, fear keeps them in line.

[Master of Ossus]

Point. On the other hand, from a public relations angle, how can this possibly win them the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people?

Not their goal. They're pandering to the rest of the Arab world in an effort to draw out the already hard-core recruits. Whether or not their actions lead to an average person in a Muslim country supporting them or not is irrelevant to their purposes.

[Lord Zentei]

Point. On the other hand, from a public relations angle, how can this possibly win them the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people?

Not their goal. They're pandering to the rest of the Arab world in an effort to draw out the already hard-core recruits. Whether or not their actions lead to an average person in a Muslim country supporting them or not is irrelevant to their purposes.

It would be impossible for them to win the hearts and minds of the majority of people in Iraq in any case, since their goal is the creation of a Taliban style Sunni theocracy, and the majority of Iraqis are Shiia.

[Chmee]

Point. On the other hand, from a public relations angle, how can this possibly win them the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people?

Not their goal. They're pandering to the rest of the Arab world in an effort to draw out the already hard-core recruits. Whether or not their actions lead to an average person in a Muslim country supporting them or not is irrelevant to their purposes.

It would be impossible for them to win the hearts and minds of the majority of people in Iraq in any case, since their goal is the creation of a Taliban style Sunni theocracy, and the majority of Iraqis are Shiia.

Probably an exaggeration to say that there is any such unified Sunni position ... some of them want that, some are just ultra-nationalists opposed to American occupation, some are just bitter Saddam loyalists who want their place at the head of the table back.

My money is on a Shia Iranian-style theocracy, anyway.

[Lord Zentei]

It would be impossible for them to win the hearts and minds of the majority of people in Iraq in any case, since their goal is the creation of a Taliban style Sunni theocracy, and the majority of Iraqis are Shiia.

Probably an exaggeration to say that there is any such unified Sunni position ... some of them want that, some are just ultra-nationalists opposed to American occupation, some are just bitter Saddam loyalists who want their place at the head of the table back.

My money is on a Shia Iranian-style theocracy, anyway.

Where do I claim a unified Sunni position?

You are probably right about the Iranian-style theocracy, though.

[Imperial Overlord]

After the civil war, of course.

[Lord Zentei]

After the civil war, of course.

The Al-Quaeda's goal is a Sunni theocracy, but their chances of creating it are exeedingly remote, since not only are the Sunni a minority as I pointed out, but are also disunited as Chmee said.

Regardless of wether the Shiia are more numerous and powerful, it is still not a given that the Baathist and Al-Quaeda elements will be able to work together to form a unified resistance. If the Shiia are defeated, the Baathists and Al-Quaeda will certainly be at each other's throats. One Sunni group will have to eliminate the other.

My post was simply in reaction to this part of Chmee's post:

"Probably an exaggeration to say that there is any such unified Sunni position"

which I did not say. I thought he had misunderstood me, that's all.

[BenRG]

Those fuckers. Even if you buy the morally bankrupt logic of killing American soldiers who're trying to improve your own shithole country, how the FUCK can you possibly justify killing your own citizens? You know, the ones you're supposed to be freeing from the 'tryanny of the Americans'?

The logic is a little wonky, but you have to remember that, to Islamacists of this particular school of thought, democracy is a debased, godless form of government that places power in the hands of a human rather than where it deserves to be, God (through the good officies of said Islamacists, naturally).

If you accept the precept that democracy is a godless apostacy, then anyone taking part in a democratic election is automatically an apostate and must be killed to maintain the purity of the population. Basically, you have a direct line from God as to what is right and wrong. If anyone disagrees... or even fails to show anything but the most enthusiastic, overt, violent and unquestioning support for your views... they are an apostate and must be killed.

It was this 'logic' that led the most violent Algerian militants (actually distantly related to the same 'parent' group that spawned al-Qaeda) to decide that every man, woman and child in Algeria was an apostate who had to be killed including all members of Islamacist militant groups... except for the two-dozen or so members of their own group.

It is no suprise that, by 2001, the militant Islamacists were reduced to a few hundred die-hards hiding out in Afhanistan (the only country that would let them in by this point). From all accounts, 9/11 was the last desperate throw of the dice in the face of intellectual and military extinction.

[MKSheppard]

Why would they fear the elections? They're not even electing a president. It's just the latest symbolic gesture that the Bush administration promises, if carried out, will be the turning point.

1. Iraq has a parliamentary form of government.
2. The Prime Minister in Iraq has all the power
3. The President is just a figurehead.
4. Guess who chooses the Prime Minister?
5. The party with the MAJORITY IN THE ASSEMBLY.

have I explained this in clear enough reasoning for your brain to comprehend?

[weemadando]

Did anyone else see the drone footage of this?

A recon drone caught the launch and then tracked them back to a house where they were later "detained" by the military.

And who said that drone aircraft were a waste of money?