Russia spying on U.S. back at Cold War level

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2005-01-30 04:37pm

At Los Angeles International Airport two weeks ago, FBI agents arrested an Irish businessman they had spent a week tailing all over California's Silicon Valley, from the offices of two electronics manufacturers in Sunnyvale to a hotel in Mountain View and down a quiet cul-de-sac to a suburban house in San Jose. The technology exporter, according to court papers, had purchased sophisticated computer components in the U.S. to send to Russia through Ireland. He now stands to be charged in mid-February with "unlawful export of 'defense articles.'" U.S. officials point to this little-noticed case as one manifestation of a troubling reality: although the cold war is long over, Russia is fielding an army of spooks in the U.S. that is at least equal in number to the one deployed by the old, much larger Soviet Union.

Russia runs more than 100 known spies under official cover in the U.S., senior U.S. intelligence and law-enforcement officials say. And those are just the more easily spotted spies working under the classic guise of diplomat. An unknown number of so-called nocs—who work under nonofficial cover as businessmen and -women, journalists or academics—undoubtedly expand the Russian spy force. "They're baaaaack," says a former senior U.S. intelligence official who worked against Moscow during the cold war. "They're busy as hell, but I don't think we've really got what it is that they're doing." The number of Russian spies in the U.S. is especially surprising, given that it was less than four years ago that the Bush Administration expelled 50 of them in retaliation for the humiliating discovery that FBI counterintelligence agent Robert Hanssen had been spying for Russia for 21 years.

In a high-level meeting late last year, officials tell TIME, the National Security Council instructed the FBI, CIA, State Department and other agencies to get a better handle on the Russian espionage threat. While the U.S. might like to eject suspect diplomats to force the Russians to send in their "rookies," as a U.S. official put it, Moscow would probably respond in kind, denting the CIA's corps in Russia.

As the FBI has remade itself in the wake of 9/11 into a counterterrorism agency, the bureau's long-standing counterintelligence mission has been bumped down a notch on the priority list. During this time, Russia has been among the U.S.'s rivals most aggressively exploiting the opening to build up its spying capabilities. Also, it has been using liberalized immigration rules for Russians, instituted after the cold war, to install nocs.

Officials say the Russians are after secrets about American military technology and hardware, dual-use technology such as the latest lasers, and the Administration's plans and intentions regarding the former Soviet states, China, the Middle East and U.S. energy policy, among other matters. Russia also wants to learn as much as possible about its biggest strategic worry: the U.S.'s ramped-up commitment to missile defense, which could eventually threaten Moscow's nuclear deterrent. Asked about the Russian spy surge, Russian embassy spokesman Yevgeniy Khorishko replied, "We do not comment on any of the issues concerning intelligence."

In addition to embassy-based spies, Russia—along with China, Pakistan, Iran and any number of other countries, including U.S. allies—relies on many hard-to-trace front companies, often run through third-party countries, to acquire secrets and dual-use technology. "We think there are thousands of these companies," a senior U.S. official said.

David Szady, the FBI's assistant director for counterintelligence, who is in charge of keeping tabs on foreign spies on U.S. soil, told TIME that in the next five years he wants to double the number of agents chasing spooks. Already, the FBI has placed counterespionage squads of at least seven agents in all 56 of its field division offices over the past year. What about the chance that damaging U.S. moles are helping Russia today? Says one U.S. senior intelligence official: "There's always evidence of another mole because there are always unexplained events. There are always unexplained losses. There are always enough dots that look strange."

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2005-01-30 04:45pm

There were times in the late sixties that the offical Soviet Embassy had over sixty employees, only one of which(The Ambassador himself) was not on the KGB's payrole

Or so I'm told

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2005-01-30 08:27pm

"But I thought that the Soviet Union had disbanded."

"That's what we wanted you to think."

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-01-30 08:53pm

"Mwhahahaha! Mwahahahahahahhahaha!!!!"

(cue berlin wall popping up out of nowhere, floats on parade opening up and letting tanks out, Lenin bursting out of his Mausoleum ...)

Back to Cold War levels eh? Good. Now all we need is military spending for Russia to go back to Cold War levels and we'll be set for a nice, frosty, Cold War II. Seeing as how I missed out on no.1, it's the least they could do ...

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-01-30 08:55pm

Everyone spies on the United States. Even if Russia loved the United States, it would continue its spying activities.

Pssst! I'll let you in on a little secret. It's because you have all the money and all the coolest toys.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2005-01-30 09:04pm

Darth Wong wrote:Everyone spies on the United States. Even if Russia loved the United States, it would continue its spying activities.

Pssst! I'll let you in on a little secret. It's because you have all the money and all the coolest toys.

This coming from a Sith Lord. I mean, the Jedi get crappy fighters, you get a kick-ass Sith Infiltrator...

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2005-01-30 09:07pm

'It's like the village bicycle- everyone's had a ride!'

Seriously, I'll bet that the Vatican would put spies in the US if it had a population over 1,000. If you don't have spies in the US- you're crazy!

But the difference here is the amount of spying being done. Looks like the re-union of East and Wesr if going... cold.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2005-01-30 09:08pm

Fuck those spelling errors. ARRGH!

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2005-01-30 09:52pm

My favorite part of the article is how the U.S. only expelled 50 "known Russian spies" after Robert Hansen's discovery. Live and let live, eh?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-01-30 09:56pm

Are we morons?

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2005-01-31 10:06am

Are we morons?

No. In the case of spies, it is better the devil you know than the one you don't. A spy you know can be watched and feed disinformation or not has you see fit. If you know where the other guys spies are you are in postion to take control over just what they can and can not to.

If you get rid of all of them, then you have waste all that time finding the new spies and while you're looking they'll being doing God knows what.

Guy N. Cognito · Post by **Guy N. Cognito** » 2005-01-31 11:48am

But people don't spy on their friends do they? I thought we all trusted each other?
I think the best quote I've seen to conteract that arguement is, I trust you to be you.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2005-01-31 12:03pm

But people don't spy on their friends do they? I thought we all trusted each other?

The US most assurely has spies in place in the UK and Canada, agruably the two "best friends" we have in the international community. And the UK and Canada have spies in the US, it's just the smart thing to do. After all you never know just what's behind the curtain until you peek.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2005-01-31 02:19pm

frigidmagi wrote: The US most assurely has spies in place in the UK and Canada, agruably the two "best friends" we have in the international community. And the UK and Canada have spies in the US, it's just the smart thing to do. After all you never know just what's behind the curtain until you peek.

The Canadian spies are easy to spot though. The red flannel shirts in July gives them away. That, and we confuse them with our rectangular bacon.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-01-31 02:22pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:
frigidmagi wrote:The US most assurely has spies in place in the UK and Canada, agruably the two "best friends" we have in the international community. And the UK and Canada have spies in the US, it's just the smart thing to do. After all you never know just what's behind the curtain until you peek.
The Canadian spies are easy to spot though. The red flannel shirts in July gives them away. That, and we confuse them with our rectangular bacon.

You may scoff, but we will assimilate you with our Tim Horton's coffee!

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-01-31 02:24pm

Everyone spies on one another, to think otherwise is pretty silly.

What wins wars and power, people? Knowledge, specficially, intelligence on the other side. Allies and enemies spy on eachother all the time and the current climate is no exception.

It is a good idea to keep spies alive and not root them out as mentioned. That's what MI5 did in WWII with the Nazi spies sent to the UK. Before the war even got going, we'd made them all useless, bar the Cambridge Five, Germany was blinded.

With the likes of ECHELON and CARNIVORE around, spying has never been so fun. The EU is even making a quantum based communications net to circumvent outside spying which is usually left to ECHELON.

Who watches the watchers? We do.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2005-01-31 02:28pm

Darth Wong wrote:Pssst! I'll let you in on a little secret. It's because you have all the money and all the coolest toys.

We have boobies too, that's why the government's been trying to hide them. You know Russia's gonna have their TIVO programed to record this year's Super Bowl.

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2005-01-31 02:34pm

Darth Wong wrote:You may scoff, but we will assimilate you with our Tim Horton's coffee!

pfft: methinks Tim Horton's brew tastes even worse than most brands of instant coffee...

Guy N. Cognito · Post by **Guy N. Cognito** » 2005-01-31 04:45pm

Ma Deuce wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:You may scoff, but we will assimilate you with our Tim Horton's coffee!
pfft: methinks Tim Horton's brew tastes even worse than most brands of instant coffee...

Some one check to make sure this man isn't a spy.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2005-01-31 05:56pm

The US doesn't spy on anyone! We just have our satellites taking pictures of their entire country. Y'know, our spy... satel... lites... oh. Nevermind.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-01-31 06:03pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Everyone spies on one another, to think otherwise is pretty silly.

What wins wars and power, people? Knowledge, specficially, intelligence on the other side. Allies and enemies spy on eachother all the time and the current climate is no exception.

It is a good idea to keep spies alive and not root them out as mentioned. That's what MI5 did in WWII with the Nazi spies sent to the UK. Before the war even got going, we'd made them all useless, bar the Cambridge Five, Germany was blinded.

With the likes of ECHELON and CARNIVORE around, spying has never been so fun. The EU is even making a quantum based communications net to circumvent outside spying which is usually left to ECHELON.

Who watches the watchers? We do.

Do you remember a while back when all the EU office lines were found to be bugged? They've never announced who they thought was responsible, but apparantely it was an Israeli firm that installed the office telephones so ...

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2005-01-31 06:30pm

Axis Kast wrote:My favorite part of the article is how the U.S. only expelled 50 "known Russian spies" after Robert Hansen's discovery. Live and let live, eh?

Good job showing your complete ignorance of how this sort of thing works.

The moment you find a spy you don't jump on him and kick him out of the country, you follow the person to learn what they are trying to find out and whom they are working with. That process can span years or even decades in some cases. The US didn't expel those spies earlier because it was unraveling there networks, and a major crackdown would have alerted persons such as Hansen that they needed to lie low. That could have killed the entire FBI investigation against him in its track, and left the US with a spy it can't convict walking around. But once he was arrested up, caught in the act of picking up money he was being paid for spying, all these other knows spies would have been alerted to what had happened and would either become inactive or shift there methods. So we then had nothing to lose by expelling them and did so.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2005-02-01 09:03am

Darth Wong wrote: You may scoff, but we will assimilate you with our Tim Horton's coffee!

I hope Tim Horton was a better hockey player than he was a coffee maker. I've had coffee there that tasted like it was filtered through his sweaty pads after a double overtime Stanley Cup final. Although their baked goods are pretty damn tasty.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2005-02-01 10:20am

The moment you find a spy you don't jump on him and kick him out of the country, you follow the person to learn what they are trying to find out and whom they are working with. That process can span years or even decades in some cases. The US didn't expel those spies earlier because it was unraveling there networks, and a major crackdown would have alerted persons such as Hansen that they needed to lie low. That could have killed the entire FBI investigation against him in its track, and left the US with a spy it can't convict walking around. But once he was arrested up, caught in the act of picking up money he was being paid for spying, all these other knows spies would have been alerted to what had happened and would either become inactive or shift there methods. So we then had nothing to lose by expelling them and did so.

Good point. I conceede; I did not consider this possibility.