Augustus Caesar wrote:Sorry to nitpick, but some bible thumpers south of the Mason-Dixon line does not make a majority.
I wouldn't be so quick to limit fundamentalist belief strictly to the South. Every state has its fundies, just with different proportions and levels of power. If you run the numbers nation wide it will not look pretty.
The most basic assumption about the world is that it does not contradict itself.
That is apparently from a nationwide sampling of 519 men and women from varying age groups yada yada yada.
I mean. Shit. That's some serious delusion. 78% believe in Angels. But wait it gets worse
There was the Time Magazine poll where 46% of respondants said that they believed that they had their own guardian angel.
And as for the "fundies are not the majority thing". It would appear that they in fact, ARE. Because shit. I mean. Damn. Nearly half your country unequivocally believing that they have a personal guardian angel? AAAARGH!
You know, just because someone believes in angels doesnt mean that there a book burning fundamentalist. They may be deluded, but not necissarily fanatical.
For the most part I've found that if I leave the fundies alone, they leave me alone. Sometimes they may come after, but I probably don't make good sport because they seem to be happy to get away from this WASH (White Anglo-Saxon Heretic )
bilateralrope wrote:and 519 seems a small sample size
Especially if they asked this question in the so-called BibleBelt.
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
For the sake of this argument let's redefine Christian Fundamentalist to cover anyone self described as Christian who believes they are in some way being persecuted for their Christian beliefs. I'm not sure what percentage of the population this would cover, or even where to find that information if it's out there, but from what I've seen personally and in the media it's a very large number. I'm not going to say there are no Christians with legitimate claims, but I will say that it's definately not the evil secular atheist running the show.
The most basic assumption about the world is that it does not contradict itself.
A sample size of over 500 gives a margin of error of ca. 5% (by "margin of error" I mean two standard deviations, or a 95% probability that the true value is within the margin of error). So the true figure is pretty close to the one Gallup gives.
This is assuming that the selection process was indeed random, but Gallup is quite professional so I doubt that there is any problem there.
NOTE: it may come as a surprise that the total population size is irrelevant provided that the sample size is randomly selected, but there you are.
CotK <mew> | HAB | JL | MM | TTC | Cybertron
TAX THE CHURCHES! - Lord Zentei TTC Supreme Grand Prophet
And the LORD said, Let there be Bosons! Yea and let there be Bosoms too!
I'd rather be the great great grandson of a demon ninja than some jackass who grew potatos. -- Covenant
Dead cows don't fart. -- CJvR
...and I like strudel! -- Asuka
Two thirds of Americans want "intelligent design" in the classroom. That doesn't necessarily mean they're all fundies, but it certainly means that 2/3 of Americans have zero critical thinking skills, which is the fundie entrance requirement. And Gallup polls show that roughly 45% of Americans think the Earth is less than 10,000 years old because the Bible says so: a position which is so radical that even full-blown fundies sometimes reject it.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
And with the statistics that weemadando provided we can see not only how high the number of beleivers is, but how dramatically their number has increased in the last generation. Bad mojo.
CotK <mew> | HAB | JL | MM | TTC | Cybertron
TAX THE CHURCHES! - Lord Zentei TTC Supreme Grand Prophet
And the LORD said, Let there be Bosons! Yea and let there be Bosoms too!
I'd rather be the great great grandson of a demon ninja than some jackass who grew potatos. -- Covenant
Dead cows don't fart. -- CJvR
...and I like strudel! -- Asuka
Lord Zentei wrote:And with the statistics that weemadando provided we can see not only how high the number of beleivers is, but how dramatically their number has increased in the last generation. Bad mojo.
From what I've seen the total numbers of Christians are decreasing, but it seems like their individual levels of fundamentalism is on the up. I'll go hunting for some numbers.
The most basic assumption about the world is that it does not contradict itself.
Wicked Pilot wrote:
From what I've seen the total numbers of Christians are decreasing, but it seems like their individual levels of fundamentalism is on the up. I'll go hunting for some numbers.
Don't census numbers of Christians stay roughly the same? It always seems to be 60+% of the US, with Atheism at about 5% or less, and Nondenominational/No Church (Agnostic Included) at ~10%.
Also, I doubt Fundamentalist beliefs are significantly on the rise any more than Christian membership while Constantine was Emperor. It's just they now have political power, and thus seem much larger than the crazy people with crosses and cardboard signs at the street crossings
[Also, most Religious/Racial Data probably has a significant margin of error, considering how much people screw with them. I've always wanted to some day be 50% Alaskan Native/50% Hispanic for only a single year before reverting to white, and check the boxes for "Jewish", "Atheist", "Mormon/LDS", and "Southern Baptist" all at the same time, but I know somewhere there'd be some sort of tax audit or government bureaucrat working more to figure out what the hell that means so I wouldn't.]
MRDOD wrote:Don't census numbers of Christians stay roughly the same? It always seems to be 60+% of the US, with Atheism at about 5% or less, and Nondenominational/No Church (Agnostic Included) at ~10%.
The numbers are very hard to pin down, but atheism, Islam, and some of the more obscure faiths are definately on the rise. I've seen one study that states Christianity is losing at a rate of 1% per year. Atheism on the other hand seems to have doubled within the last ten years, but the number of actual atheist is difficult to determine. From what I've seen you're looking at somewhere between 5-15% of the total population. It all really depends on the polling methods and how you define who fits into what faith.
The most basic assumption about the world is that it does not contradict itself.
America doesn't have a fundamentalist majority, for instance the single largest Christian sect, the Catholics, is decidedly non-fundementalist (minus the odd follower of Mel Gibson type Catholicism). Looking at beleif in angels is idiotic unless one wishes to use the terms "sincere Christian" and "fundie" interchangeably. Beleif in angels is one of those things that comes with beleiving the Bible unless you go out of your way to reject them.
Using the classical definition 36% of Americans beleive "the Bible is the word of God and is to be taken literally", at least that was the case when Time did a survey back in 2002. If you are using the term 'fundie' as an all purpose perjorative, then obviously mileage will vary, Mike has already pointed out beleif in Biblical creationism, 59% beleive "Revelation will come true" - though I'd be really leary of that one as the opinions of what 'Revelation coming true' is very contentious issue within Christianity.
Personally I think it is most accurate to state that substantial minority of Americans are fundamentalists; a decent majority are sincere/irrational/whatever beleivers.
Dude - 1/3rd of America believing that the Bible is to be taken literally?
Holy. FUCKING. Shit.
I guess the Canadians better break out the iron chariots and prepare to resist the impending invasion by believers intent on destroying the non believers.
Dude - 1/3rd of America believing that the Bible is to be taken literally?
The fun thing is that happens to be a decided drop from historical levels. People keep making the mistake of thinking that the America of the '60s and '70s was not atypical.
It also amazes me how badly the Democrats have managed to keed alienating well over a third of the electorate (fundies disproportionately vote). You simply cannot write off the fundies, let alone all the people with "Deep and sincere" Christian beleifs, if you want to have a realistic chance of being the dominant political party.
I would argue church attendance would be a better datapoint than persons claiming to be Christian. Back when the nation was founded, for example, probably the vast majority of citizens would have claimed to be Christian, but weekly church attendance was below 20% of the population. The level of commitment to one's beliefs is as important as what those beliefs are.
Stanley Hauerwas wrote:[W]hy is it that no one is angry at the inequality of income in this country? I mean, the inequality of income is unbelievable. Unbelievable. Why isn’t that ever an issue of politics? Because you don’t live in a democracy. You live in a plutocracy. Money rules.
)
-- Asuka
