Scientific Report: rock solid evidence for human-caused G.W.

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Scientific Report: rock solid evidence for human-caused G.W.

Post by Boyish-Tigerlilly »

Apparently, there's a new scientific report out which purports virtually certain, rock solid evidence for human involvement in global warming. I wonder how this will go over with skeptics.

On second though, they are already trying to discredit it by calling it "alarmist." It seems that, no matter what is said, it's always alarmist.

I really don't see how anyone honest could doubt the preponderance of evidence deemed authoritative anymore.


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PARIS, France (AP) -- The world's leading climate scientists, in their most powerful language ever used on the issue, said global warming is "very likely" man-made, according to a new report obtained Friday by The Associated Press.

The report provides what may be cold comfort in slightly reduced projections on rising temperatures and sea levels by the year 2100. But it is tempered by a flat pronouncement that global warming is essentially a runaway train that cannot be stopped for centuries.

"The observed widespread warming of the atmosphere and ocean, together with ice-mass loss, support the conclusion that it is extremely unlikely that global climate change of the past 50 years can be explained without external forcing, and very likely that is not due to known natural causes alone," said the 20-page report.

Human-caused warming and rises in sea-level "would continue for centuries" because the process has already started, "even if greenhouse gas concentrations were to be stabilized," said the 20-page report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

The report by a group of hundreds of scientists and representatives of 113 governments contains the most authoritative science on the issue. It was due for official release later Friday morning in Paris. (Watch climate experts discuss the planet's future Video)

The phrase "very likely" translates to a more than 90 percent certainty that global warming is caused by man.

What that means in layman's language is "we have this nailed," said top U.S. climate scientist Jerry Mahlman, who originated the percentage system.

It marked an escalation from the panel's last report in 2001, which said warming was "likely" caused by human activity. There had been speculation that the participants might try to up the ante to "virtually certain" man causes global warming, which translates to 99 percent chance.

On sea levels, the report projects rises of 7-23 inches by the end of the century. That could be augmented by an additional 4-8 inches if recent surprising polar ice sheet melt continues. (Watch how rising sea levels could affect San Francisco Video)

The 2001 report projected a sea level rise of up to 35 inches.

Many scientists had warned that this was being too cautious and said sea level rise could be closer to 3 to 5 feet because of ice sheet melt.

But despite losing on that battle, scientists said the report is strong.

"There's no question that the powerful language is intimately linked to the more powerful science," said one of the study's many co-authors, Andrew Weaver of the University of Victoria, who spoke by phone from Canada. He said the report was based on science that is rock-solid, peer-reviewed, conservative and consensus.

"It's very conservative. Scientists by their nature are skeptics."

The scientists wrote the report, based on years of peer-reviewed research; government officials edited it with an eye toward the required unanimous approval by world governments.

In the end, there was little debate on the strength of the wording about human activity most likely to blame.

"That is a big move. I hope it is a powerful statement," said Jan Pretel, head of the department of climate change at the Czech Hydrometeorological Institute.
Rising sea levels

The panel quickly agreed Thursday on two of the most contentious issues: attributing global warming to man-made burning of fossil fuels and connecting it to a recent increase in stronger hurricanes. Negotiations over a final third difficult issue -- how much sea level rise is predicted by 2100 -- went into the night Thursday with a deadline approaching for the report.

While critics call the panel overly alarmist, it is by nature relatively cautious because it relies on hundreds of scientists, including skeptics.

"I hope that policymakers will be quite convinced by this message," said Riibeta Abeta, a delegate whose island nation Kiribati is threatened by rising seas. "The purpose is to get them moving."

The Chinese delegation was resistant to strong wording on global warming, said Barbados delegate Leonard Fields and others. China has increasingly turned to fossil fuels for its huge and growing energy needs and it asked that an ambiguous footnote be added to the "very likely" statement. (Watch how Asian nations have the U.S. as political cover on global warming Video)

The footnote reads: "Consideration of remaining uncertainty is based on current methodology," according to an official who was at the negotiations but was sworn to secrecy.

Meanwhile, the U.S. government delegation was not one of the more vocal groups in the debate over whether warming is man-made, said other countries' officials. And several attendees credited the head of the panel session, Susan Solomon, a top U.S. government climate scientist, with pushing through the agreement so quickly.

The Bush administration acknowledges that global warming is man-made and a problem that must be dealt with, Bush science adviser John Marburger has said. However, Bush continues to reject mandatory limits on so-called "greenhouse" gases, even as he acknowledges the existence of climate change.
Climate change a global issue

But this is more than just a U.S. issue.

"What you're trying to do is get the whole planet under the proverbial tent in how to deal with this, not just the rich countries," Mahlman said Thursday. "I think we're in a different kind of game now."

The panel, created by the United Nations in 1988, releases its assessments every five or six years -- although scientists have been observing aspects of climate change since as far back as the 1960s. The reports are released in phases, with this one being the first of four this year.

The next report is due in April and will discuss the effects of global warming.

But there are some elements of that in the current document.

The report says that global warming has made stronger hurricanes, including those on the Atlantic Ocean, such as Hurricane Katrina, according to Fields, the Barbados delegate, and others.

It also said an increase in hurricane and tropical cyclone strength since 1970 "more likely than not" can be attributed to man-made global warming. The scientists said global warming's connection varies with storms in different parts of the world, but that the storms that strike the Americas are global warming-influenced.

That's a contrast from the 2001 report, which said there was not enough evidence to make such a conclusion. And it conflicts with a November 2006 statement by the World Meteorological Organization, which helped found the IPCC. The meteorological group said it could not link past stronger storms to global warming.

Fields -- of Barbados, a country in the path of many hurricanes -- said the new wording was "very important." He noted that insurance companies -- which look to science to calculate storm risk -- "watch the language, too."
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Post by Seggybop »

There's nothing wrong with it being alarmist. Alarm is necessary.
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Post by The Silence and I »

Seggybop wrote:There's nothing wrong with it being alarmist. Alarm is necessary.
I have to disagree with you here.

If you alarm the general populace too greatly, and then nothing happens right away (which it won't--Global Warming is slow when measured by human attention spans) the populace starts to think you are crying wolf, and ignore you. Meanwhile the problem grows and by the time it is obvious enough to convince the public it is too late to stop it.

Alarm is a short term method. Useful for getting away from a predator, not useful for long term planning of any nature.


Now, at this point alarm might have value, as it is becoming obvious that the world is warming to many people, and only a fast strong reaction can have a chance of affecting things quickly. But that is a more complicated discussion I'm not prepared for.
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Post by Edi »

The reason why it can't be stopped anymore is feedback loops. Alter something, it feeds the results back to the first mechanism, amplifying the first effect and ratcheting things up by notches. This has been happening in several different areas, with the current results. The saying about it being too late for the pebbles to vote once the avalanche is on its way is an apt way to describe it.

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Post by Bounty »

Big Oil's counter-attack:
The Guardian wrote:Scientists and economists have been offered $10,000 each by a lobby group funded by one of the world's largest oil companies to undermine a major climate change report due to be published today.

Letters sent by the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), an ExxonMobil-funded thinktank with close links to the Bush administration, offered the payments for articles that emphasise the shortcomings of a report from the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

Travel expenses and additional payments were also offered.

The UN report was written by international experts and is widely regarded as the most comprehensive review yet of climate change science. It will underpin international negotiations on new emissions targets to succeed the Kyoto agreement, the first phase of which expires in 2012. World governments were given a draft last year and invited to comment.

The AEI has received more than $1.6m from ExxonMobil and more than 20 of its staff have worked as consultants to the Bush administration. Lee Raymond, a former head of ExxonMobil, is the vice-chairman of AEI's board of trustees.

The letters, sent to scientists in Britain, the US and elsewhere, attack the UN's panel as "resistant to reasonable criticism and dissent and prone to summary conclusions that are poorly supported by the analytical work" and ask for essays that "thoughtfully explore the limitations of climate model outputs".

Climate scientists described the move yesterday as an attempt to cast doubt over the "overwhelming scientific evidence" on global warming. "It's a desperate attempt by an organisation who wants to distort science for their own political aims," said David Viner of the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia.

"The IPCC process is probably the most thorough and open review undertaken in any discipline. This undermines the confidence of the public in the scientific community and the ability of governments to take on sound scientific advice," he said.

The letters were sent by Kenneth Green, a visiting scholar at AEI, who confirmed that the organisation had approached scientists, economists and policy analysts to write articles for an independent review that would highlight the strengths and weaknesses of the IPCC report.

"Right now, the whole debate is polarised," he said. "One group says that anyone with any doubts whatsoever are deniers and the other group is saying that anyone who wants to take action is alarmist. We don't think that approach has a lot of utility for intelligent policy."

One American scientist turned down the offer, citing fears that the report could easily be misused for political gain. "You wouldn't know if some of the other authors might say nothing's going to happen, that we should ignore it, or that it's not our fault," said Steve Schroeder, a professor at Texas A&M university.

The contents of the IPCC report have been an open secret since the Bush administration posted its draft copy on the internet in April. It says there is a 90% chance that human activity is warming the planet, and that global average temperatures will rise by another 1.5 to 5.8C this century, depending on emissions.

Lord Rees of Ludlow, the president of the Royal Society, Britain's most prestigious scientific institute, said: "The IPCC is the world's leading authority on climate change and its latest report will provide a comprehensive picture of the latest scientific understanding on the issue. It is expected to stress, more convincingly than ever before, that our planet is already warming due to human actions, and that 'business as usual' would lead to unacceptable risks, underscoring the urgent need for concerted international action to reduce the worst impacts of climate change. However, yet again, there will be a vocal minority with their own agendas who will try to suggest otherwise."

Ben Stewart of Greenpeace said: "The AEI is more than just a thinktank, it functions as the Bush administration's intellectual Cosa Nostra. They are White House surrogates in the last throes of their campaign of climate change denial. They lost on the science; they lost on the moral case for action. All they've got left is a suitcase full of cash."

On Monday, another Exxon-funded organisation based in Canada will launch a review in London which casts doubt on the IPCC report. Among its authors are Tad Murty, a former scientist who believes human activity makes no contribution to global warming. Confirmed VIPs attending include Nigel Lawson and David Bellamy, who believes there is no link between burning fossil fuels and global warming.
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Post by K. A. Pital »

The logic of corporatists is clear.

1) It's a slow process not to be noticed by the masses by physical observation.
2) Counteraction to that process harms their capitalist greed right now and perhaps even moreso in the possible future.
3) In this generation, the effects of GW will not be a major disaster for capitalists (and in the future, it seems, too).
4) The public is unqualified to make statements on that and lacking in scientific expertise.
5) Well-funded lies easily replace and obscure true reports in the eyes of the people.

Corporations have since long understood that populism is an important force. Lying about pollution, global warming and other environmental problems has become easy, because people lack any expertise to make a rational statement, and they do not choose to defer to experts.

10,000$ is like a coin thrown to a dog. Lapdog, more correctly. It's sickening.
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Post by Rye »

Scientists and economists have been offered $10,000 each by a lobby group funded by one of the world's largest oil companies to undermine a major climate change report due to be published today.
HAHAHAHAH! Oh man, that's so fucking dishonest. Oh lord.
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Post by Molyneux »

....how the hell is that not illegal? Isn't it fraud?
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Post by brianeyci »

Ten thousand dollars for someone to throw away all credibility in their field?

Hahahahaha, what a joke. Make it one million and you might have takers... write a paper contrary to scientific opinion and release it to the public without peer review and you're destroying your entire future. At least they should give enough to retire on.

If a scientist found real evidence global warming was fake, ten thousand dollars would be like a five minute shit compared to the reputation he'd earn with his peers.
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Post by Mr Flibble »

Rye wrote:
Scientists and economists have been offered $10,000 each by a lobby group funded by one of the world's largest oil companies to undermine a major climate change report due to be published today.
Man that is so stupid. Any scientist, particularly geoscientist, corrupt enough to be bribed for a mere $10000 would already be working for big oil for much more.
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Post by Molyneux »

Mr Flibble wrote:
Rye wrote:
Scientists and economists have been offered $10,000 each by a lobby group funded by one of the world's largest oil companies to undermine a major climate change report due to be published today.
Man that is so stupid. Any scientist, particularly geoscientist, corrupt enough to be bribed for a mere $10000 would already be working for big oil for much more.
It might be a little dishonest, but...why not just take the money and then not change the testimony? Unless you're signing a contract or something, the $10,000 is just a 'gift'... >_>
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Post by Gil Hamilton »

Molyneux wrote:....how the hell is that not illegal? Isn't it fraud?
Not technically fraud. Nothing stops scientists from interpreting physical data in "interesting" ways except their own integrity as a scientist. However, if they are taking cash prizes to cast doubt on all evidence, then integrity isn't exactly an issue. However, things might go poorly for them, to say the least, if they are caught actually deliberately cooking evidence for oil companies and an ethics committee finds out. But if they are "interpreting" evidence in a way that just happens to coincide with the views of a lobbyist who just happened to give them a taxes-paid gift off a briefcase full of 20s, then they are in the clear, even if people in the scientific community might think they are scum.
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Post by Ma Deuce »

So climate change has passed the point where no emissions reduction of any size would stop the process? That means the focus should now shift from cutting greenhouse gasses (though I'm not saying this effort should be abandoned entirely) to making whatever preparations are necessary for civilization to survive these changes when they do happen.
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Post by Darth Wong »

brianeyci wrote:Ten thousand dollars for someone to throw away all credibility in their field?
You're assuming that every scientist has career aspirations in his field. Life is unpredictable. Some of them end up as bankers, for fuck's sake. There are plenty of people who are willing to whore out an education they no longer need, or credibility in a field where they are not really active.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Ten grand from Big Oil is like accepting a book token as ransom money for holding the President's daughter. I'd want at least six figures if I'm going to back their bullshit, but I imagine I'd rather get a fat grant off the UN or other institution to do more work on the world's next best loved doomsaying (terrorism is being overdone).
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Post by Darth Tater »

Ten grand is zip to big oil but they assume that us "poor folk" who buy their gas are too stupid to notice and that a scientist activley researching the topic will throw away his credibility for what the Big Oil CEO's use to wipe their ass. The reason the Big Oil people don't give a crap though is because they don't need to build for the future because they'll die way before that.
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Post by Fiji_Fury »

I won't be surprised to find that there are researchers and scientists who act on this big oil offer. As Darth Wong pointed out, there's only so many people out there with scientific degrees who are really concerned about professional credibility.

However, I don't expect that a few disenting opinions will actually disuade the UN and the multitude of scientists and organization which contributed to the reports on global warming. Let the oil and energy companies try to throw money at this issue: I think their time of relative immunity is close to ending.
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Post by Shinova »

This is probably bad practice but,


http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... stcount=17


So is global warming due to human causes real or is it political?
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Post by His Divine Shadow »

Here is another counter to the published report that was posted on a swedish forum I visit:
http://www.johannorberg.net/?page=displ ... =2007#2140

As for myself I've decided to take no side in the G.W. debate, I've decided to just wait it out and see what happens. I'll buy guns and ammo in the meanwhile and prepare for the worst...
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Post by SirNitram »

And so a 'false centrism' is manufactured, under the guise of 'skepticism', because anyone who insists on actually reporting the truth and punishing folks abusing their credentials is a terrible sin when it's against the will of Big Business.

We should really 'Teach the controversy' here. How can you Darwinists be so dogmatic?
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Post by kheegster »

His Divine Shadow wrote:
As for myself I've decided to take no side in the G.W. debate, I've decided to just wait it out and see what happens. I'll buy guns and ammo in the meanwhile and prepare for the worst...
You won't be needing guns and ammo. Stock up on the sunblock and beach umbrellas. :lol:
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

I'm watching An Inconvenient Truth right now, and I find it quite exciting to know that my generation will likely be the one to see humanity's final days. I don't see humans ever taking this seriously, what with those damn sceptic idiots out there with their short sightedness and profit margins to worry about.

I expect it'll be a wild ride, especially if we do get to that 6.4 degrees increase that will see near 99% of life wiped out.
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Post by Gil Hamilton »

Admiral Valdemar wrote:I'm watching An Inconvenient Truth right now, and I find it quite exciting to know that my generation will likely be the one to see humanity's final days. I don't see humans ever taking this seriously, what with those damn sceptic idiots out there with their short sightedness and profit margins to worry about.

I expect it'll be a wild ride, especially if we do get to that 6.4 degrees increase that will see near 99% of life wiped out.
I saw that too and it's funny just how many people in the movie dismissed the factual information in it because it was presented by Al Gore.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Gil Hamilton wrote: I saw that too and it's funny just how many people in the movie dismissed the factual information in it because it was presented by Al Gore.
Yeah, as if a presidential DEMOCRATIC candidate knows shit about climate change, hyuck hyuck.

That is why it'll be all the more tastier to laugh at these fools as the world ends, but long before that, they'll be inundated with more foreigners (as refugees) and see their taxes sky rocket and profits plummet. Even the most die-hard, conservative, free capitalist, immoral dick will take note then. Shame it's already too late.
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