Legislating to encourage moms to stay at home in Idaho

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Cairber
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Legislating to encourage moms to stay at home in Idaho

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Lawmakers look for ways to keep moms at home to strengthen families
Task force blames breakdown of traditional family for social ills

Rep. Steven Thayn and his wife, Sherry, raised eight children on their family farm. She stayed home, and they home-schooled several of their children before eventually sending them to local schools.

Thayn said more two-parent homes and fewer working mothers could be both a social and economic boon. The Emmett Republican sees the breakdown of the traditional family structure as the root of societal ills such as drug abuse, crime and domestic violence.

That's why, as chairman of the Idaho House of Representatives' Family Task Force, he and others are considering controversial solutions such as repealing no-fault divorce laws and finding ways to encourage mothers to stay home with their children.

"In one of the articles I read, quite a large percentage of mothers really do want to spend more time at home, and if that's the case, what can we do to help them?" Thayn said.

One such working mother, Mandy Hagler, drops her 5-year-old daughter, Riley, at school every morning before running to an internship or to a class at Boise State University. On weekends, she works in retail to pay for her education and to support her daughter.

Hagler, 26, spoke at a task force meeting in Boise, but doesn't think the task force listened. She thinks Thayn and others on the task force, trying to define what a family should look like, are pegging families like hers as part of the problem.

"I don't see the government's place in defining what the ideal family is," she said.

Families in decline?

The six-member task force was convened this year by Speaker of the House Lawerence Denney and has been meeting with the lofty goal of finding solutions to what they see as the decline of the Idaho family. Controversially, the group is using the typical family of 1950 as its benchmark, though Thayn says it's simply a baseline and not a suggestion that families were perfect in 1950.

"I don't think the family structure was really ideal at that time, either," he said. "I don't think the family ever in the history of the world has reached its potential."

Throughout a task force meeting in late September, speakers offered statistics that single-parent homes — most often headed by a woman — were driving up rates of drug use and crime. Cohabitation, and divorce were having the same effect.

Thayn believes that reducing divorces could save the state $200 million because the crime rate would drop if divorces dropped. He thinks making it more difficult to get divorced would help families avoid what he sees as the pitfalls of non-traditional families.

The task force endorsed a proposal to end no-fault divorce, which allows a couple to divorce without proof of fault.

"Divorce is just terrible," Rep. Dick Harwood, R-St. Maries, said. "It's one of Satan's best tools to kill America."

A draft report released to the Idaho Statesman earlier this month makes several recommendations and also advocates adding family-impact statements to proposed legislation.

Several advocates urged the task force to adopt legislation to strengthen day-care regulations and make early childhood education part of public schools, two hot-button issues on which the House and Senate have clashed.

However, the task force report does not recommend tightening regulations for day-cares with fewer than 13 children. It does not mention early childhood education.

Sen. Gary Schroeder, R-Moscow, a proponent of early childhood education and stronger day-care regulations, has been at odds with Thayn. Schroeder said stronger day-care regulations, including mandatory background checks for providers, are about keeping children safe from pedophiles and that research shows early childhood education helps children.

"Basically, we have in my opinion, and I stress in my opinion, a group of people who are living in the past," he said.

"Basically, they are people who think women ought to stay home and take care of the kids."

Thayn does not shy from this view, calling pre-kindergarten education a "free babysitting service" and suggesting that early childhood education, day-care and Head Start may hurt families by keeping mothers away from home.

"It seems to be (proponents of such programs) just assume that mothers have to work, and they're not really asking the question, ‘What can we do to help them stay home?' " he said.

Harwood said he knows first-hand the importance of a stay-at-home mom.

"If you have mom home when you get home, that's a big thing," he said.

"I didn't — my mom worked and my dad worked, and I got in a lot of trouble when I came home from school."

Rep. Branden Durst, D-Boise, said the task force is ignoring reality by thinking it can steer women back into the home.

"Clearly, I think that the reality is our economy can't support having single-wage earners in every household," he said.

Durst, the lone Democrat on the task force, bristles at suggestions that children from nontraditional homes face more troubles than those from two-parent households.

Durst is married with a 5-year-old stepson, a 3-year-old son from a previous relationship and a newborn with his wife.

He said he was personally offended by some of the speakers' suggestions.

"What's important is the quality of the family and the people in the family," he said.

Hagler agrees. Instead of focusing on the shortcomings of nontraditional families, the task force should look for ways to help them, through better health care and a living wage, she said.

"Just because you don't have a mother and father in the household doesn't mean the family is doomed," she said.

private matters, public solutions

Some task force members who speak forcefully about limiting the scope of government said they struggled with the very idea of a government task force tackling private issues. However, they agreed family issues affect the state too much for government not to take a role.

"I do believe we need to do some more preventative maintenance to keep our families together, whether that means incentivizing people to stay together or deincentivizing people to break apart," Rep. Marv Hagedorn, R-Meridian, said.

Some people question how much influence the task force will have.

Jasper LiCalzi, chairman of the department of political economy at The College of Idaho, said government talking about family legislation in a state like Idaho can be tricky.

"We have this libertarian strain in this state that government should stay out of personal business," he said.

"Well, family's about as personal as it gets."

A repeal of no-fault divorce would mostly be a boon for trial lawyers, whose business would increase as divorces became more complicated, LiCalzi said. He also said the proposal stands almost no chance of prevailing.

"We've been away from it for too long to go back," he said.

Schroeder agreed that no-fault divorce isn't going anywhere, but acknowledged that Thayn and like-minded legislators in the House are likely to again stymie Schroeder's push for day-care and early education legislation.

"That doesn't mean we won't try," Schroeder said.

There's a lot I can say about this, but the part that really got me was that these guys don't want to make PreK and early childhood education programs more widely available. They think it will keep moms away from the home.

In my case, this is the other way around. Having good quality and low cost PreK programs in our area allows me to be able to continue to stay home with our son and future child while our daughter will go to school.

If we had to pay the prices that I know other moms pay in areas that don't have lower (or free) programs, I would probably have to go back to work to supplement enough income to afford the prices (which can be 5,000 or more for 5 half days!)
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Post by Cairber »

Oh here's the link:

story
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Post by Darth Wong »

What I hate about initiatives like this is that there's a grain of truth in what they're saying. Having two parents who are never there is not exactly the ideal way to raise a child. However, it seems to me that this legislation attempts to change the situation not by helping stay-at-home mothers, but by punishing everyone else.

You want to encourage the traditional nuclear family? Make a stay-at-home parent into a big tax deduction for the working spouse. Oops, that would hit the bottom line, wouldn't it? Can't have that, because at the end of the day, we're not serious about encouraging parents to stay at home. We want more people in the workforce, earning, producing, and consuming so that we can pray to the almighty god of Economic Growth.

This legislation is designed to pander to the religious bloc while saving the government money by cutting back on needed programs: classic Republitard behaviour.
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Post by Cairber »

That summed up my feelings really well. I wasn't sure how to word it...but grain of truth is right.

It also bothered me that they didn't palce any value on a stay at home dad.
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Post by Aaron »

Of course they place no value on the stay at home dad, it's not manly behaviour. You should see the looks I get if I tell people I'm a stay at home dad, instant assumption that I'm a welfare bum. But if I tell them I'm retired, instant respect and conversation starter.
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Post by General Trelane (Retired) »

idahostatesman wrote:Harwood said he knows first-hand the importance of a stay-at-home mom.

"If you have mom home when you get home, that's a big thing," he said.

"I didn't — my mom worked and my dad worked, and I got in a lot of trouble when I came home from school."
That's simply hilarious. I know plenty of guys from my generation that "got in a lot of trouble" when they came home from school and they had stay-at-home moms. In fact, the two worst bullies from my grad class are in that group. Maybe Harwood was really just a problem child.

Darth Wong wrote:What I hate about initiatives like this is that there's a grain of truth in what they're saying. Having two parents who are never there is not exactly the ideal way to raise a child. However, it seems to me that this legislation attempts to change the situation not by helping stay-at-home mothers, but by punishing everyone else.
Well put. Additionally, they see the problem but they confuse the causes with the symptoms. For example, they think making it harder to get divorced would fix a bunch of problems when in actuality divorce is a symptom of deeper problems. And making it harder for some people to get divorced will actually cause greater harm.

Darth Wong wrote:You want to encourage the traditional nuclear family? Make a stay-at-home parent into a big tax deduction for the working spouse. Oops, that would hit the bottom line, wouldn't it? Can't have that, because at the end of the day, we're not serious about encouraging parents to stay at home. We want more people in the workforce, earning, producing, and consuming so that we can pray to the almighty god of Economic Growth.
This has been a soap-box issue for me for at least the last decade. Ironically, you'd think that this would be a no brainer for conservative governments that harp about 'traditional' families, yet they consistently seem more interested in tax breaks for their close buddies.

Here in Canada, Harper's government has been talking about implementing an incoming-splitting scheme for spouses, but I haven't heard anything about it for a while now, so I'm not holding my breath.

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Cairber wrote: It also bothered me that they didn't palce any value on a stay at home dad.
Of course they place no value on the stay at home dad, it's not manly behaviour. You should see the looks I get if I tell people I'm a stay at home dad, instant assumption that I'm a welfare bum. But if I tell them I'm retired, instant respect and conversation starter.
Stay-at-home dads just don't fit the conservative definition of a traditional family.

A friend of mine is a stay-at-home dad for economic reasons. His wife has a PhD in genetics, and her research job simply earns more than his job did, so it made sense that if one of them stays home, it should be him. He gets similarly strange reactions from people when they first find out he's a stay-at-home dad.
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Post by Kanastrous »

Seems to me, a likely consequence of repealing no-fault divorce will be an increased reluctance, on the parts of some number of people, to marry in the first place...
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Post by LadyTevar »

As Wong pointed out, there's a good reason why women aren't stay-at-home mothers anymore -- in many cases, both parents have to work just to pay the bills.

All the politicos who back this kind of thing are forgetting that back in the rosy 50s & 60s, there were good-paying jobs and more balanced taxes so the average family only needed one breadwinner. As those good-paying industrial bluecollar jobs faded away with the industries, more and more families needed the additional income that the wife could bring in, and thus they couldn't afford to be stay-at-home mothers anymore.

This has been driving the American economy for the last four decades, and there's no end in sight as the buying power of the average family has only shrunk. Anymore, to be a stay at home mother, your husband has to have a 6-digit salary.
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Post by Duckie »

No one else has pointed this out: What in the world is Idaho doing with a "Family Task Force"? What do they do? Lay down covering fire against gay marriage and premarital sex?
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Post by Duckie »

Ghetto Edit
"Divorce is just terrible," Rep. Dick Harwood, R-St. Maries, said. "It's one of Satan's best tools to kill America."
Nevermind. Now I see.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Jesus. Are we really only this far beyond primitive states? Still making futile gestures to curry favor from our magic pixies?
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Post by Flagg »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Jesus. Are we really only this far beyond primitive states? Still making futile gestures to curry favor from our magic pixies?
It's Idaho, dude. Idaho.

I love how their solution to "fix" the problem isn't to make it easier for families to have a single source of income so one can stay home with the kids, but rather to make it harder for a 2 income family to find childcare.

And of course the solution to domestic violence is to make it even harder for an abused spouse to get out of their marriage!
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Kanastrous wrote:Seems to me, a likely consequence of repealing no-fault divorce will be an increased reluctance, on the parts of some number of people, to marry in the first place...
I doubt it. People are young and optimistic when they first get married. The more likely outcome is that a lot of people will separate without getting a legal divorce, and abusive people will be able to cause a lot more havoc in the lives of their separated ex-partners. Also, the difficulty of getting legal divorce will mean that it will be harder to get alimony because it's so difficult to go through the necessary legal proceedings, so a lot of women will separate from abusive or alcoholic husbands and be unable to get child support.
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Its stupid. People don't get married now thinking there's a 20% probability of divorce in MY marriage, so I better try for another partner or see a shrink for my alcoholism before I get married this time... Absolutely retarded. People get divorced usually because there's no other solution. People need to stop treating traditional marriage like it was sublime and desirable and handed down from God. Because it wasn't and isn't.
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Post by Flagg »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Its stupid. People don't get married now thinking there's a 20% probability of divorce in MY marriage, so I better try for another partner or see a shrink for my alcoholism before I get married this time... Absolutely retarded. People get divorced usually because there's no other solution. People need to stop treating traditional marriage like it was sublime and desirable and handed down from God. Because it wasn't and isn't.
I think the divorce rate is about 50% in the US.
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Post by Spin Echo »

Flagg wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Its stupid. People don't get married now thinking there's a 20% probability of divorce in MY marriage, so I better try for another partner or see a shrink for my alcoholism before I get married this time... Absolutely retarded. People get divorced usually because there's no other solution. People need to stop treating traditional marriage like it was sublime and desirable and handed down from God. Because it wasn't and isn't.
I think the divorce rate is about 50% in the US.
IIRC, that's due to dodgy statistics. About half the number of people get divorced in a given year as the number that get married. Basically they're trying to compare the number of people that get married in one year to the number of people getting divorced that have been married for any number of years.

Not sure if that helped clarify things.
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Post by Kanastrous »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:People need to stop treating traditional marriage like it was sublime and desirable and handed down from God. Because it wasn't and isn't.
My wife and I like being married...although I guess we'd like living together long-term, just as much, there's something about the formal commitment that we both value.

Although the 'handed down by God' bit doesn't apply to us...we decided to have a Vegas ceremony (which turned into an unintentional comedy act, which we both appreciated) and wasn't the minister befuddled when I told him no mention of God in the ceremony. And he said, okay, but what religion *are* you? and I made the mistake of deciding to screw with him, and told him that we were Zoroastrians...

...I mean, really, how could anyone go through any kind of Divinity training, without learning what the hell Zoroastrianism is...?
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Post by Aaron »

Kanastrous wrote:
...I mean, really, how could anyone go through any kind of Divinity training, without learning what the hell Zoroastrianism is...?
I don't think that ministers are really required to know that kind of thing. If your a Canadian Forces Padre you get the full spectrum of training on the faiths, past and present. But Joe Mumblefuck the Vegas Priest might have got his training at some shitty Baptist bible college.
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Post by Aaron »

Ghetto Edit: what I'm getting at is, unlike a skilled trade or an engineer I don't think there's any real standard across the board for priests.
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Post by Spin Echo »

Psst. I think Kanastrous was being silly. :P

I remember one poster mentioning that in divinity training, they tend to focus much more on salesmanship and how to be a leader, because if you actually study scriptures themselves, it's a quick way to lose faith.
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Post by Kanastrous »

Cpl Kendall wrote:But Joe Mumblefuck the Vegas Priest might have got his training at some shitty Baptist bible college.
Joe Mumblefuck is such a totally perfect description of this guy, that I almost think you've met him...
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Post by Aaron »

Well if you were being silly, my apologies. It's hard to tell on a BBS sometimes. Joe Mumblefuck was the first thing that came to mind when I pictured a priest working at a Vegas wedding chapel. I mean I wasn't expecting a very high bar.
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