Bishops barred from Western Wall after moneylenders protest

[Androsphinx]

OK, nothing to do with moneylenders really. Just rabbis. From the IHT

Thirteen Austrian bishops were barred from praying at Jerusalem's Western Wall last week by Jewish religious authorities when they refused to take off their crosses, according to Austrian officials.

On a planned visit on Thursday to the wall — the holiest place where Jews can pray — the bishops were given an ultimatum by the rabbi of the site: Either remove the crosses or stand behind a fence several meters (yards) from the site. The bishops refused the request and watched people praying from behind the fence, according to an Austrian official.

"They were a bit disappointed they were not let into the wall," said Arad Benko, spokesman for the Austrian embassy. "It was a disappointing moment." He said the bishops were not informed before the visit that wearing the crosses would be a problem.

Shmuel Rabinowitz, the rabbi of the Western Wall, said that while the site is open to all religions, worshippers are expected not to offend the sensitivities of Jews.

"Appearing like that at the wall plaza and at a meeting with me is insulting and provocative," Rabinowitz told the Israeli daily Maariv. "I told them that the pope didn't show up at the wall with a cross, but hid it."

On a historic visit to the holy land in 2000, Pope John Paul II prayed at the Western Wall, stuffing a prayer between the cracks — a Jewish ritual to ask God to fulfill a wish. Pictures show the pope wearing a cross while praying.

The 13 bishops were in Israel attending the annual Austrian Bishops Conference, held in the Holy Land for the first time. Led by the Archbishop of Vienna, Christoph Schoenborn, the bishops visited several sites, including the town of Bethlehem and Israel's Holocaust memorial, Yad Vashem. They planned to pray at the Western Wall before they were turned away.

The Western Wall, the holiest prayer site for Jews, is a remnant of the Second Temple compound built by King Herod in the 6th century B.C. and destroyed by Roman conquerors in A.D. 70.

The Al Aqsa Mosque and the gold-capped Dome of the Rock are built atop the ruins of the biblical Jewish temples, making the compound one of the most explosive holy sites in the region. The dispute has ignited violence and scuttled peace efforts between Israel and the Palestinians for years.

I notice they don't seem to have tried to go to the Dome of the Rock...

[Androsphinx]

Oh, and Herod is 1st century BC, not 6th century. Although he did totally overhaul the Temple Mount, and is responsible for the wall.

[Flagg]

But this is all ok! I mean if St Peters Cathedral demanded that Jews take off their god-beanies then that would be horrible anti-semitism. But this is just fine!

[Keevan_Colton]

But how can I talk to my invisible friend with out my super secret decoder ring?

[Kanastrous]

*shrug*

The Roman Catholic Church endorses and promotes the dispossession, ghettoization and slaughter of Jews, for centuries, and later on some Jews refuse to let some prelates get within a certain distance of an old ruin, while wearing their crosses.

Call it even.

[Tiriol]

On a historic visit to the holy land in 2000, Pope John Paul II prayed at the Western Wall, stuffing a prayer between the cracks — a Jewish ritual to ask God to fulfill a wish. Pictures show the pope wearing a cross while praying.

It is all right to ask some relatively unknown bishops to not wear crosses, but not all right to ask the Pope to do so? Either there was a different rabbi in charge of the Western Wall or that there is certain amount of cowardice and PR work going on.

I wonder what kind of disbute would come to pass if the Catholics would refuse the Jews entrance to to St. Peter's Cathedral on the account of them wearing some holy symbol of theirs.

It would be ironic if it would be learned that it wasn't the crosses that really mattered, but rather the fact that these were Austrian bishops and Austria being one of the places where the Third Reich had its origins.

And Kanastrous: that kind of victim mentality and "compensation" isn't exactly a smart idea on the long run. Especially when the Catholic Church has apologized for their lack of effort to help the Jews during the Holocaust and before.

[eyl]

On a historic visit to the holy land in 2000, Pope John Paul II prayed at the Western Wall, stuffing a prayer between the cracks — a Jewish ritual to ask God to fulfill a wish. Pictures show the pope wearing a cross while praying.

It is all right to ask some relatively unknown bishops to not wear crosses, but not all right to ask the Pope to do so? Either there was a different rabbi in charge of the Western Wall or that there is certain amount of cowardice and PR work going on.

Probably the former - the rabbis in question haven't ever struck me as being particularly PR-savvy

I wonder what kind of disbute would come to pass if the Catholics would refuse the Jews entrance to to St. Peter's Cathedral on the account of them wearing some holy symbol of theirs.

A religious Jew (certainly ultra-orthodox) probably wouldn't enter a church in the first place.

[mingo]

What upsets me about this is the OP's reference to "moneylenders" apparently referring to the Rabbis. Yes arguing over religion is like fight of who has the best imaginary friend, but adding another insult does not make anybody "even". I do find some things Jewish people do annoying, (though more often the Israeli government) but it's better to confine one's anger to relevant points.

[Androsphinx]

What upsets me about this is the OP's reference to "moneylenders" apparently referring to the Rabbis. Yes arguing over religion is like fight of who has the best imaginary friend, but adding another insult does not make anybody "even". I do find some things Jewish people do annoying, (though more often the Israeli government) but it's better to confine one's anger to relevant points.

You are aware that in the New Testament, Jesus attacks and drives away from the Temple Mount people who were lending money and selling animals? The OP was a joke, intimating that the Bishops might do the same thing.

[Androsphinx]

A friend pointed out that the Jerusalem Post's version of the story goes like this:

According to a directive issued by Rabinovitch, it is forbidden to openly wear the Latin cross, which represents what Christians believe to be the redemptive crucifying of Jesus, in the Western Wall courtyard.

and the Arutz Sheva report like this:

While official government publications describing appropriate dress and conduct for the Western Wall area do not include any mention of a ban on crucifixes, Christian pilgrimage tour leaders have in the past suggested that those wearing crosses place them inside their shirts to avoid unnecessary confrontation.

And the Associated Press report:

"Appearing like that at the wall plaza and at a meeting with me is insulting and provocative," Rabinowitz told the Israeli daily Maariv. "I told them that the pope didn't show up at the wall with a cross, but hid it."

So it seems to be just this one guy - Rabbi Rabinowitz - who caused this.

[mingo]

What upsets me about this is the OP's reference to "moneylenders" apparently referring to the Rabbis. Yes arguing over religion is like fight of who has the best imaginary friend, but adding another insult does not make anybody "even". I do find some things Jewish people do annoying, (though more often the Israeli government) but it's better to confine one's anger to relevant points.

You are aware that in the New Testament, Jesus attacks and drives away from the Temple Mount people who were lending money and selling animals? The OP was a joke, intimating that the Bishops might do the same thing.

I got the reference, the humor did and does escape me.

[Androsphinx]

So if you "got" the joke, why did you think that "moneylenders" refers to the rabbis, when in fact it's referring to people who have been dead for two thousand years?

[Kanastrous]

Seemed to me it referred to Jews in general.

But it was kind of you explain what you intended it to mean.

[Androsphinx]

Well, I thought that the bit where I said "OK, nothing to do with moneylenders really. Just rabbis." made it clear. Obviously I'll have to be more obvious in future.

[Kanastrous]

Don't sweat it.

It's probably impossible, to make anything sufficiently obvious for me...

[Stravo]

*shrug*

The Roman Catholic Church endorses and promotes the dispossession, ghettoization and slaughter of Jews, for centuries, and later on some Jews refuse to let some prelates get within a certain distance of an old ruin, while wearing their crosses.

Call it even.

And the Jews, like good abused children, are now practicing what they learned from the Catholics on the Palestinians. Good for them.

[Kanastrous]

Yup. The shit basically just keeps getting handed around.

[Kanastrous]

^ although it's worth pointing out that there is a difference between Jews, and Israelis. Not all Jews are Israelis, not all Israelis Jews, and there are even Jews living in Israel who don't just dislike the national policies of the Israeli state, but object to its very existence.