Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
Feil wrote:I'd imagine that clouds of smoke aren't exactly uncommon on a well-traveled highway where lots of people are downshifting and the standard for vehicle emissions are nonexistent. Maybe the Marines just didn't want to be putting their masks on five times a day, and got bitten in the ass when "it'll never happen to us" happened to them.
Well, if that's the case, color me ignorant and ignore my post.The Spartan wrote:I've not served but I'm pretty sure you can't mistake gas for vehicle emissions.Feil wrote:I'd imagine that clouds of smoke aren't exactly uncommon on a well-traveled highway where lots of people are downshifting and the standard for vehicle emissions are nonexistent. Maybe the Marines just didn't want to be putting their masks on five times a day, and got bitten in the ass when "it'll never happen to us" happened to them.
I thought that as well, are mercenaries (glorified rent-a-cops) really necessary when they do tasks that could be done better by soldiers employed by the state? Why waste time with a seperate set of logistics for a superfluous private army that proved itself unreliable on various occassions?Enforcer Talen wrote:Why have a seperate military set of contracters at all then?
Zero Accountability whatsoever is worth the extra $80K to the Bushies.Enforcer Talen wrote:I personally dont think so. Why pay a contractor 100k when you can pay 5 enlisted men 20k each, and get more professional conduct?
Talen and I have been wanting this to happen for months now. The best scenario would be if the whole thing gets caught on camera from start to finish.Chris OFarrell wrote:I can't believe I am saying this, but I'm with Marina. Have a dozen blackwater fuck heads gunned down by heavy machine guns the next time they pull a stunt like this in an 'Oops, reflex' action by the troops.
It MIGHT just get the message across to these guys.
And in the case of the maladministration, both motives are in force.SirNitram wrote:There are, at best, two reasons to use Mercenaries. One is when you, in your infinite stupidity, hubris, and arrogance, launch your military into a war it simply can't win by virtue of insufficient occupation force. The second is when you don't want accountability and professional behavior.
The marines Ive discussed it with said that would be the situation if BW tried that game with us. We're the premier security force in our area of operations; we've searched Iraqi Army and Police, jurisdiction notwithstanding.Chris OFarrell wrote:I can't believe I am saying this, but I'm with Marina. Have a dozen blackwater fuck heads gunned down by heavy machine guns the next time they pull a stunt like this in an 'Opps, reflex' action by the troops.
It MIGHT just get the message across to these guys.
LinkWith Blackwater's help, aid workers flee Kenya
January 06, 2008 21:42PM
As Masai warriors guarded the Kenyan orphanage where sisters Brittanie and Aubrie Vander Mey and friend Jamie Cook worked, the three wondered how they would make it back to West Michigan.
They had planned to spend two months caring for orphans affected by HIV or AIDS at the Omwabini Centre in Kimilili, but post-election violence cut short their stay. Newscasts told them the violence was coming closer each day to the orphanage, about 180 miles from Nairobi and 45 miles from Eldoret, where 35 people died when a church filled with women and children was burned last week.
Today, the women - Aubrie, 19, Jamie, 20, and Brittanie, 21 - were to return to Grand Rapids after a weekend rescue, reportedly with the help of Blackwater Worldwide personnel.
Dean Vander Mey, of Byron Township, Brittanie and Aubrie's father, said he credits their return to God's intervention and the private security firm.
"My daughter (Brittanie) told me today, 'Every town around us has been ripped apart,'" he said. "Their little town was the only safe town. ... I have to attribute (their safety) to the Lord."
Vander Mey said he learned of the conflict Dec. 28. He was enjoying a quiet weekend in his cottage up north when Brittanie called.
"She said, 'I'm OK,' and I asked, 'What are you talking about?'" he recalled. "'Haven't you heard the news?' she told me."
He learned of buses being stopped by militias, of corpses appearing on roadsides, of hundreds of Kenyans fleeing west, of stopped aid caravans, of the burned church, of the ethnic slayings.
The violence followed Dec. 27 elections. Kenya's electoral commission said President Mwai Kibaki had won the vote, but opposition leader Raila Odinga claims the election was rigged. International observers have said it was flawed. The turmoil has left 486 dead and more than 75,000 people homeless, according to government figures.
"We didn't really realize the severity," Vander Mey said. "Then, I started to see how much mayhem was beginning to happen, and then it got very scary. "They were right there, in the middle of that."
He also learned escape by car wasn't an option for the women, as militias made sure no one took the two-hour ride to Nairobi. He pleaded for more safety personnel to be sent to guard the orphanage, but the young women were becoming increasingly nervous.
"They were scared, and I said, 'Honey, I don't know what to do.'" he said.
Vander Mey said he started calling government officials, congressmen -- whomever he could think of to get his daughters and their friend home.
"I was not getting whole lot of answers," he said. "They said, 'Stay safe; don't move.' I wasn't satisfied with the 'stay put.' That's what they were telling us: 'You're in harm's way, but don't move.'"
Hiring a helicopter wasn't an option. Vander Mey said he was told it would $20,000 to rent one for 30 minutes, and news stations and the Red Cross had already rented most of those available.
Vander Mey said he recalled relatives were friends with the family of Blackwater founder and Holland native Erik Prince and decided to give the company a call."They had internal contacts and everything," Vander Mey said. "They had people who could help."
He said Blackwater lined up a 10-person plane, rescued the women and other international workers and flew them to Nairobi. The three women then began the trip to Grand Rapids on Sunday afternoon.
Uganda -- not Kenya -- had been his daughters' first destination choice, Vander Mey said. "I said, 'No, Uganda is not safe enough,'" he said. "I thought Kenya was much more stable. Nothing like this has happened there; it was a very safe place."But he's not complaining.
"It's been a nightmare and a miracle," Vander Mey said.
-- The Associated Press contributed to this report
I suspect the reason Blackwater's conduct was different in Kenya was because the aid workers in question were Americans. Blackwater doesn't seem to give a fuck about happens to Iraqis.Big Orange wrote:While some Blackwater head bangers are picking a fight with Marines in Iraq, another set of mercenaries are actually doing their job and helping people:With Blackwater's help, aid workers flee Kenya
What a joke. I imagine Blackwater's contract does not 'specifically authorize or prohibit' use of goddamn nerve gas or nuclear weapons. I'm only half-joking; if they can shrug off this convention that includes CS gas, does anyone know if international treaties would actually stop Blackwater from using chlorine or weaponised insecticides? Hooray for 'legal grey areas'.According to a State Department official, the contract did not specifically authorize Blackwater personnel to carry or use CS, but it did not prohibit it.
The military, however, tightly controls use of riot control agents in war zones. They are banned by an international convention on chemical weapons endorsed by the United States, although a 1975 presidential order allows their use by the United States military in war zones under limited defensive circumstances and only with the approval of the president or a senior officer designated by the president.
