Russian ship seized off Somalia

[R_H] · Post by **[R_H]** » 2008-02-04 06:09am

Pirates have seized a Russian ship off the coast of Somalia, officials say.

The Svitzer Korsakov tug was taken to the port of Eyl in Somalia's northern semi-autonomous Puntland region, the local governor told the BBC.

However, Russia's Interfax news agency quoted officials as saying the vessel was in the port of Mogadishu - further to the south.

Six crew members - four Russians and two Britons - are reported to be on board the ship.They are said to be in radio contact with Svitzer Wijsmuller Sakhalin Ltd - the company that chartered the tug to service offshore oil platforms.

The ship was reportedly heading from Russia's port of St Petersburg to the island of Sakhalin in the country's far east region.

Somali coastal waters are now considered to be among the most hazardous in the world. With no effective government, pirates are able to operate largely unchecked, correspondents say.

The International Maritime Bureau recently warned that pirate attacks in the region had become more violent and pirates were better armed.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2008-02-04 06:12am

This begs for Spetznaz intervention.

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2008-02-04 06:29am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:This begs for Spetznaz intervention.

With the Britons there? SAS for the win/jizzmode

Gawds, it'd be like that Monkey Dust sketch

'Whose got the best special forces then, eh? SAAAASSSS, nah nah, you got it wrong! Speeeetttsnaaaz...."

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2008-02-04 06:31am

This begs for Spetznaz intervention.

Once upon a time, pirates tried to attack a Russian cargo ship, but it was a BDK (large assault ship) camouflaged as a cargo liner. They were in for a surpise, eh. We need to re-do that stunt in vinicity of Somalia.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2008-02-04 06:41am

Stas Bush wrote:
This begs for Spetznaz intervention.
Once upon a time, pirates tried to attack a Russian cargo ship, but it was a BDK (large assault ship) camouflaged as a cargo liner. They were in for a surpise, eh. We need to re-do that stunt in vinicity of Somalia.

I remember that. Didn't the Captain radio them saying something like "You really, REALLY don't want to do this" and they ignored him, then were vaporized by a heavy naval cannon?

But as for this situation...Spetznaz! Or VDV - assuming they don't qualify as Spetznaz in of themselves these days, it looks like damn near every Russian military group has its own special forces units...

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2008-02-04 07:07am

Lets hope the old Russian negotiating skills are still around then...

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2008-02-04 08:33am

Chris OFarrell wrote: But as for this situation...Spetznaz! Or VDV - assuming they don't qualify as Spetznaz in of themselves these days, it looks like damn near every Russian military group has its own special forces units...

Erm...Spetznaz means exactly that - special forces. For example, deep reconeissance battalions (part of every division) are Spetznaz. Anti-terrorist units are also called Spetznaz, as are special units of the GRU and KGB.

They may be completely different units with completely different missions, just like the US Army Rangers and the Army Greent Berets in the US.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2008-02-04 12:22pm

You really, REALLY don't want to do this

Yeah. The pirates also once mistakenly attacked another BDK which patiently waited until the pirates opened fire. The crew thought the heavy guns on the shit were so bloody obvious they simply won't dare to attack and just run off - but apparently the pirates were too stupid to recognize the weapons or something. In response, the crew opened fire from all guns, sinking 10 out of 12 small pirate vessels

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2008-02-04 12:49pm

Am I correct in assuming a BDK is an amphibious warfare ship? What are the specs on those things?

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2008-02-04 01:32pm

A BDK is either a pr.755 (1971-present) or pr.1171 (1966-1975) ship.

The Pr.755 specs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ropucha_class_landing_ship
Pr.1171 specs:
http://warfare.ru/?linkid=2096&catid=272

Teebs · Post by **Teebs** » 2008-02-04 04:02pm

I can't imagine that they'd be stupid enough to attack a ship that looks like the first of the two pictures (the p.r.755), it screams military when you look at it.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2008-02-04 04:29pm

I remember reading an article in one of those batshit insane right-wing publications-- I think it was 'Soldier of Fortune'-- advocating that seamen get firearms to defend their ships from pirates. That led to wondering whether or not Russian seamen will begin bringing guns aboard their ships, which led to wondering whether or not it's legal for Russian civilians to possess firearms. Comments, Mr. Bush?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2008-02-04 04:44pm

Arming the crew with small arms is pretty pointless. In the vast majority of pirate attacks no one knows anything is happening until the pirates are already onboard in strength. Merchant ships simply don’t maintain lookouts like a warship does, and most pirate boats are too small to show up decently on radar. If pirates are spotted before they broad, then in many cases the merchant ship can simply turn away and escape, the sea speed of a small boats is very poor. If you wanted a fixed armament BTW, then the merchant would be required to use naval docks only in most countries, totally destroying its economic value.

The real solution, at least for Somalia, is to respond to attacks with utterly overwhelming force, rather then letting shipping companies pay ransoms every single fucking time. It might mean one ships crew ends up dead, but it would put an end to things.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2008-02-04 04:46pm

Hey, Stas, do you have a link about the incident?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2008-02-04 04:59pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:Arming the crew with small arms is pretty pointless. In the vast majority of pirate attacks no one knows anything is happening until the pirates are already onboard in strength. Merchant ships simply don’t maintain lookouts like a warship does, and most pirate boats are too small to show up decently on radar. If pirates are spotted before they broad, then in many cases the merchant ship can simply turn away and escape, the sea speed of a small boats is very poor. If you wanted a fixed armament BTW, then the merchant would be required to use naval docks only in most countries, totally destroying its economic value.

The real solution, at least for Somalia, is to respond to attacks with utterly overwhelming force, rather then letting shipping companies pay ransoms every single fucking time. It might mean one ships crew ends up dead, but it would put an end to things.

What about using a merchantman with hidden armament (something like a WW2 Q ship) to go trolling for pirates?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2008-02-04 05:11pm

Glocksman wrote: What about using a merchantman with hidden armament (something like a WW2 Q ship) to go trolling for pirates?

That’s already done by several nations in South Asia, where pirate targets are more often small fishing vessels or yachts, with the crew murdered and the ships quickly abandon or scuttled after a looting, as opposed to the many large freighters seized for ransom off Somalia.

The problem is, if you kill the pirates with a Q-ship, then all the other pirates on shore don’t see what happens. Attack the pirates on land, which is easily done if they hold ships hostage, and everyone gets to see a real strong message.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2008-02-04 09:00pm

American yachts off Yemen where the crews were armed with shotguns--which you can take virtually anywhere in the world legally--have successfully repelled pirates with both gunfire and ramming before. See the case of the assault on the Gandalf and Mahdi. They were attacked by four large, engine-equipped dhows with 4 men aboard each one, and the two yachts rammed and sank one and by gunfire disabled the engine on another and set it afire. The pirates, armed with AK-47s (it's nearly impossible to aim a rifle on a small moving boat traveling rapidly at sea) riddled the two yacht but didn't hit anyone aboard, whereas the 00 buckshot was highly effective at close range in sweeping the open pirate boats.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2008-02-04 11:40pm

Pirate attacks, even of warships, are common. And yes, they are idiots:

Surprisingly warships have also not escaped. For instance, the Russian Federation Navy Ship Nikolai Vilkor, a 3,400 ton Alligator class amphibious vessel was pursued by pirates though it focused its searchlights on its guns to show that it was a dangerous target, and even fired warning shots to deter the doughty pirates. However, the warship was still followed for about an hour.

This is a pr.1171 ship which has deliberately shown it's guns

I guess sometimes that's just not enough.

As for arming humans. No, Russian citizens do not have firearms in posession or circulation. Only hunting arms, with a license, are available to the general public, but not handguns or assault rifles. Sea Skimmer already detailed why it's pointless however.

fgalkin wrote:Hey, Stas, do you have a link about the incident?

Read it in a naval history book, but I can't give a link off-hands. There was several incidents like this where pirates attacked Soviet/Russian warships, in both sides of the indian ocean, Somalian and Indonesian coast respectively.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-02-05 02:04am

Suicide by warship, methinks. I wonder what would happen if a pirate ship opened fire on an American naval vessel with AK-47s.

Jaepheth · Post by **Jaepheth** » 2008-02-05 02:33am

How do pirates board large vessels from small boats, grappling hooks?

Couldn't ships just affix angled steel spikes around the top of the outer hull to prevent climbing?

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2008-02-05 02:43am

I wonder what would happen if a pirate ship opened fire on an American naval vessel

I think there had been accidents of such.. with no good outcomes for pirates.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2008-02-05 03:43am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:American yachts off Yemen where the crews were armed with shotguns--which you can take virtually anywhere in the world legally--have successfully repelled pirates with both gunfire and ramming before. See the case of the assault on the Gandalf and Mahdi.

Here is an excerpt of what appears to be a firsthand account of one of the witnesses on board one of those vessels involved in that incident:

"At about 1600, we observed two different boats approaching us head-on from the southwest. These boats were 25-30 feet long, had higher freeboard than the others, and were diesel powered. They were coming directly at us very quickly, and there were four men in each boat. The boats separated at about 200 yards, one boat ahead of the other, coming down Mahdi's port side and firing into the cockpit. The other boat fired an automatic weapon at both Gandalf and Mahdi, but mostly at Gandalf, from ahead. These guys were shooting directly at the cockpits, and obviously intended to kill us.

"The first boat then swung around behind Mahdi's stern to come up and board us. At that point I, Rod Nowlin, aboard Mahdi and armed with a 12-gauge shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot, started shooting into their boat. I forced them to keep their heads down so that they could not shoot at us. I'm not sure that I hit anyone at that point, although I could see the driver of the boat crouched down behind a steering console. After firing three shots at them, their engine started to smoke, so I swung around to shoot at the boat ahead.

"At that point, I saw Jay Barry on Gandalf ram the boat amidships, almost cutting it in two, and turning it almost completely over. I turned back around to shoot again at the boat behind Mahdi, and that is when they turned away from Mahdi and were heading toward the stern of Gandalf. Gandalf was beside us, about 100 feet away. The bow of the pirate's boat came right up against Gandalf's stern, and two men stood up on the bow to board Gandalf. That was a serious and probably fateful error on their part, as I shot both of them. The boat then veered away, and I shot the driver - although I'm not sure of the outcome because they were further away and my shot hadn't knocked him over like the other two."

Check out the complete text at the link. Quite a read.