Japan is Screwed.

[HemlockGrey]

So you have your 30 years of greatness, make cheap electronic shit, cheaper cars of good quality. You make a great welfare system so that your people are taken care of. You create supercorps. But then international capitalists, ruling those corps, find out that you can make cheap electronic shit with cheap Chinese and Indians. You're screwed. Oh well. Shit happens to everyone.

Right, this is the fault of the international capitalist elite, rather than owing anything to profound flaws in the fabric of Japanese society and their own economic approach. Rather, they are just another pawn used by the International Capitalists, sucked dry and discarded on the ashheap of history.

Damn those international capitalists! Always one step ahead!

[K. A. Pital]

Name me "profound flaws in the fabric of Japanese society and their own economic approach". Perhaps it's that they don't want to allow their people to be treated like cheapass workhands, a-la China? No? Then what is it? Good benefits for the elderly? Is that a "profound flaw"? Or maybe not using second-class migrant citizenry as cheap workforce? Or perhaps it's just a little coincidence that China and other SEA countries are now also excelling at flooding the market with cheap electronics?

Which "profound flaws" of Japan led it to it's current state? Perhaps it's just an inevitable result of the development of world economic affairs?

If it's really "their fault", what's the main deal?

[Gerald Tarrant]

I think it's hilarious that in his chestbeating Americanism, Shep has pointed out a problem faced by many western nations ... the answer to which is increase immigration.

Or a less onerous guest worker program. In all seriousness if the Republicans keep going the way they're going on the immigration issue they'll kill the party, which may or may not be a good thing.

[Gerald Tarrant]

Name me "profound flaws in the fabric of Japanese society and their own economic approach". Perhaps it's that they don't want to allow their people to be treated like cheapass workhands, a-la China? No? Then what is it? Good benefits for the elderly? Is that a "profound flaw"? Or maybe not using second-class migrant citizenry as cheap workforce? Or perhaps it's just a little coincidence that China and other SEA countries are now also excelling at flooding the market with cheap electronics?

Which "profound flaws" of Japan led it to it's current state? Perhaps it's just an inevitable result of the development of world economic affairs?

If it's really "their fault", what's the main deal?

A very low rate of return on investment, due principally to a raft of bad debts that their banks picked up. This slowed domestic investment, and since they've (as mentioned in the article) tried to limit foreign direct investment, there aren't any sources to make up the gap. Which means productivity growth due to capital expansion is flat. One of the principle reasons that other Asian countries are growing faster than Japan, they get foreign investment, and Japan's bad debts scare away domestic investment.

Depending on how widely the mortgage crisis spreads, and how bad those sold-off sub-prime debts end up being, America could face similar investment problems.

[Netko]

Ask people who have hit the market recently; ask them if employers give a shit about education besides that you have it. Durandal said he didn't get his job because of his grades or program of study. There would be zero chance of someone getting Durandal's job if he was a foreign graduate, unless he was exceptional. Foreign universities often have higher standards than native ones too -- it's harder to get into Beijing university than to get into Harvard.

I don't know about Apple, but I know a number of people who are employed at Google based exactly on the superiority of the local faculty compared to most US ones. My cousin (who didn't mess up his university career like me) is actually heading over for an internship in a couple of months. Similar thing with the local MS branch, where a bunch of people were first employed locally, but then were promoted into positions in the US.

Hell, I actually know of two guys who are something of a faculty legend since they, as rather marginal students in their third year, got offered positions as assistants at some university in Bumfuck, Kansas, with generous pay, benefits and all, as well as an opportunity to finish up their degrees in record time compared to what it would have taken them at home, simply on the brand name of our faculty and some luck in making a connection with the university.

Yes, its harder, but not nearly as hard as you make it seem to be, if proper channels are followed, and of course, if one wants to go work abroad in the first place. As long as you come from a respected faculty (or university in the cases of smaller ones), you can get a job abroad without many issues, especially in fields with deficits of local talent.

[brianeyci]

Your "legends" work in academic fields, where grades and brand name are the ultimate equalizer. Even if grades are shit, brand name can do a lot. This is a lot less in non-academic fields. Stravo posted something about how fucking annoyed he was when academics came in and name dropped a Harvard -- he'd rather have someone from New York State. Google is a progressive employer; hell they ask for fucking haiku. Most are not like Google.

There is actually no deficit. One of the threads in the forum talks about this; there are actually many, many engineers in America. Only that corporations are hiring people from abroad to save money, and firing the local engineers. Then they whine about local schools not making enough engineers, about how the big bad education system is forcing them to hire abroad.

So in other words, the foreigners have the same or better education than their US counterparts, but are paid less than what US workers would be if the company hired US workers, and need to suck it up. If you consider that opportunity, fine. I consider it being ripped off, akin to a woman making less money than a man.

You could consider it as US workers being spoiled and asking for more than they're worth, but when CEO's make so much more and run companies to the ground, I don't think that's valid.

[K. A. Pital]

One of the principle reasons that other Asian countries are growing faster than Japan, they get foreign investment, and Japan's bad debts scare away domestic investment.

Aren't other SEA countries more profitable for investment simply due to lower costs? Doesnt' China consume on it's own a lion's share in the yearly FDI amount (which are generally subject to minor fluctuations in overall volume from year to year), thus leaving other willing countries with empty hands?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The reasons why Asian countries in general are doing better than Japan is that they are more forward looking culturally than Japan. Even Korea is slowly doing better in the gender department, though they are very similar to Japan in many ways and it's up for grabs if they regress like Japan. Japan on the other hand, has a bunch of old men fretting on the possibility of a female monarch.

[Ypoknons]

Aren't other SEA countries more profitable for investment simply due to lower costs?

There's also growth. You have a keep growing your profit each year, after all, to pay your interest if you used debt or returns to investors. Moving to China and cutting cost is basically a one-time event. Production in China also grants you access to the local market, which is steadily growing due to people buying more and more. You also preempt your competitors. Volkswagon is a good example - Audi and Volkswagon have far more brand prestige in China and money is made. I'm sure an Audi made in Japan would be of great quality but in addition to the lack of cost savings, you're going to have a hard time cracking the locals.