Work starts on Gulf 'green city'

[[R_H]]

BBC

Abu Dhabi has started to build what it says is the world's first zero-carbon, zero-waste car-free city.

Masdar City will cost $22bn (£11.3bn), take eight years to build and be home to 50,000 people and 1,500 businesses.

The city will be mostly powered by solar energy and residents will move in travel pods running on magnetic tracks.

Abu Dhabi has one of the world's biggest per capita carbon footprints and sceptics fear Masdar may be just a fig leaf for the oil-rich Gulf emirate.

Others fear Masdar City - on the outskirts of Abu Dhabi City - may become a luxury development for the rich.

The project is supported by global conservation charity, the WWF.

Less power, less water

The city will make use of traditional Gulf architecture to create low-energy buildings, with natural air conditioning from wind towers.

Water will be provided through a solar-powered desalination plant, Masdar says. The city will need a quarter of the power required for a similar sized community, while its water needs will be 60% lower.

The city forms part of an ambitious plan to develop clean energy technologies.

In January, the government of Abu Dhabi announced a $15bn five-year initiative to develop clean energy technologies, calling it "the most ambitious sustainability project ever launched by a government".

As part of the plan, Abu Dhabi will become home to the world's largest hydrogen power plant.

The money is being channelled through the Masdar Initiative, a company established to develop and commercialise clean energy technologies, and Abu Dhabi hopes it will lead to international joint ventures involving much more money.

Abu Dhabi will invest $4bn of equity in the project and borrow some of the rest, Masdar said.

"We are creating an array of financial vehicles to finance the $22bn development," Masdar chief executive officer Sultan al-Jaber told Reuters news agency.

"We will monetise all carbon emission reductions... Such innovative financing has never been applied to the scale of an entire city."

[Sea Skimmer]

That’s a hell of an expensive tourist attraction even by the standards of Dubai. Even the nutjob 'The World' island complex didn't cost nearly as much.

[[R_H]]

That’s a hell of an expensive tourist attraction even by the standards of Dubai. Even the nutjob 'The World' island complex didn't cost nearly as much.

I'm betting the solar powered desalination plant and the hydrogen plant eat up a lot of those 22 billion dollars

[Sea Skimmer]

Probably, but it’s still just a tourist attraction with no true sustainability given that the hydrogen comes from natural gas.

[Admiral Valdemar]

It'd be crazy of them to invest this money in, oh I don't know, sustainable infrastructure for their kids' futures.

[[R_H]]

It'd be crazy of them to invest this money in, oh I don't know, sustainable infrastructure for their kids' futures.

You mean more luxury car dealerships ?

[weemadando]

It'd be crazy of them to invest this money in, oh I don't know, sustainable infrastructure for their kids' futures.

Which is why the American is telling them not to. He wants his cheap oil from third world countries with no other infrastructure.

[Sea Skimmer]

Which is why the American is telling them not to. He wants his cheap oil from third world countries with no other infrastructure.

Big words from a man who lives in a country with no real fuel economy standards or emission standards for cars. Hydrogen is another kind of battery, not a solution to anyone’s energy problems. 22 billion could have bought them enough nuclear reactors to power most if not the entire country until the end of time, but of course that would scare the tourists away, not attract them like this gimmick will.

[Illuminatus Primus]

It'd be crazy of them to invest this money in, oh I don't know, sustainable infrastructure for their kids' futures.

Which is why the American is telling them not to. He wants his cheap oil from third world countries with no other infrastructure.

Of course, its not like oil exporting states do not heavily benefit from alternative energy domestically, freeing up more resources for export. Its not as if this is one of the major reasons why Iran wants nuclear power. Of course not.

[Spyder]

Which is why the American is telling them not to. He wants his cheap oil from third world countries with no other infrastructure.

Big words from a man who lives in a country with no real fuel economy standards or emission standards for cars.

The Australian and the New Zealander have become too complacent are are long overdue for better environmental standards for cars. Now that that's out of the way, the American wants cheap oil.

Better?

[Sea Skimmer]

So I’m still waiting for you morons to explain how converting natural gas into something with less energy content is more sustainable then oil.

[weemadando]

I'm not saying we're any better.

Australia is fucked due to the fact that we are utterly reliant on coal. Before you even look at petrol, oil or gas, we have coal and an obscene amount of our nations power grid is completely reliant on it.

I'm just a bit disappointed that you aren't willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and try something that no other nation has been willing to do.

[Spyder]

So I’m still waiting for you morons to explain how converting natural gas into something with less energy content is more sustainable then oil.

Can't say I recall making that claim. Did I say this city was a good idea somewhere?

[Sea Skimmer]

I'm just a bit disappointed that you aren't willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and try something that no other nation has been willing to do.

If it’s a city without cars, then what’s the point of hydrogen? Its advantage is supposed to be portability for mobile applications such cars, not energy efficiency for static installations. The process of creating hydrogen from natural gas can be as much as 70-80% efficient, but even hydrogen fuel cells, the most efficient way of using the hydrogen, are only about 60% efficient. That’s no better then burning natural gas in a combined cycle gas turbine power plant, so the end result is energy lost and nothing to show for it except buzzwords. If you took the waste heat from the gas turbine plant and used it for a desalination plant BTW, this would raise the plants total thermal efficiancy to as much as 95%. The solar water plant does sound like the best part of the project though.

I’ve seen the media hype hydrogen and biofuels have created, and how much of the population has been duped into thinking a solution was at hand, and how quickly American politicians moved to exploit both to show how environmentally friendly they are. This leads me to believe the place is just tourist draw, which is the real means by which Dubai is hoping to diversify its economy.

This is a nation with multiple indoor ski slopes in the desert, the worlds tallest building with crap for floor space, a 14 billion dollar island replica of the world, the worlds only 7 star hotel and 30 mile long highways into the desert to nowhere (so people can test the top speed of the latest 12mpg Mercedes they imported) in case you forgot. Excuse me for being skeptical that they give two shits about a real hydrogen economy.



As for Aussie coal, I looked around and you export something like 75% of the coal you mine, but even at the current rate of production and only counting coal which is economical to recover at current prices you could sustain your 2001 level of production for a 150 freaking years. If total known coal reserves (at any price) are matched against your actual level of domestic consumption you’ve got hundreds upon hundreds of years of the stuff. The US meanwhile gets about 50% of its electrical power from coal and is going to run out in about 100 years; better start preparing for BLOOD FOR COAL!

[Spyder]

Reflecting on the situation, New Zealand could actually be doing a lot better then we are. The main reason why we've got this pristine green national image is because most of the land hasn't been touched.

Our cars are aging, we've got swaths of old low cost accomodation that needed to be properly insulated more then two decades ago. Auckland only has only a paultry million people in it yet in terms land mass it...wait WTF...Dunedin?!? Dunedin is at 26?

Bilateralrope, how many houses have you got down there?