Rev. Jeremiah Wright and the Obama Campaign

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Rev. Jeremiah Wright and the Obama Campaign

Post by Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi »

I haven't seen any threads on the story, so I guess I'll put it out here to discuss.

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Controversial minister leaves Obama campaign
Presidential candidate condemns words but not ministry of former pastor

By Alex Johnson
Reporter
MSNBC
updated 6:09 p.m. PT, Fri., March. 14, 2008

Editor’s note: This article includes language some readers may consider inappropriate.

Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., condemned racially charged sermons by his former pastor Friday and urged Americans not to reject his presidential campaign because of “guilt by association.”

Obama’s campaign announced that the minister, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., had left its spiritual advisory committee after videotapes of his sermons again ignited fierce debate in news accounts and political blogs.

Obama did not clarify whether Wright volunteered to leave his African American Religious Leadership Committee, a loose group of supporters associated with the campaign, or whether the campaign asked him to leave.

“I think there was recognition that he’s obviously on the verge of retirement, [that] he’s taking a sabbatatical and that it was important for him to step out of the spotlight in this situation,” Obama said.

Wright was the latest in a series of advisers to Obama and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., who have stepped aside as supporters of both candidates trade racially charged accusations.

Obama rejects comments
Obama spoke warmly of Wright, who retired last month as pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. Wright is a man “I’ve known for 17 years, [who] helped bring me to Jesus, helped bring me to church,” he said.

“I strongly condemn” Wright’s statements, but “I would not repudiate the man,” Obama said. “He’s been preaching for 30 years. He’s a man who was a former Marine, a biblical scholar, someone who’s spoken at theological schools all over the country.

“That’s the man I know,” Obama said. “That’s the man who was the pastor of this church.”

But Obama acknowledged that “there’s no doubt this is going to be used as political fodder, as it has been in the past.”

“What I hope is [that] what the American people will trust is what I believe,” he said, that “my values, my ideas, what I’ve spoke about in terms of bringing the country together will override a guilt by association.”

But the sermons, at least one of which was delivered long before Wright retired last month, revived uncomfortable questions about Obama’s ties to the minister, whom conservative critics have accused of advocating black separatism.

A videotape of one sermon captures Wright using a harsh racial epithet to argue that Clinton could not understand the struggles of African Americans.

“Barack knows what it means, living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people,” Wright said on Christmas Day of last year. “Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain’t never been called a [N-word]!”

In another sermon, delivered five days after the 9/11 attacks, Wright seems to imply that the United States had brought the terrorist violence on itself.

“We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York, and we never batted an eye,” Wright says. “We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is brought right back in our own front yards.”

In a later sermon, Wright revisits the theme, declaring: “No, no, no, not God bless America — God damn America!”

Obama: I didn’t hear inflammatory sermons
Obama took the title of his 2006 autobiography, “The Audacity of Hope,” from a sermon by Wright, who baptized him and officiated at his wedding. He has called Wright “a sounding board for me to make sure that I am speaking as truthfully about what I believe as possible.”

In his remarks on MSNBC, Obama expanded on a brief posting that was made under his name earlier Friday afternoon on the Huffington Post Web site.

“The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation,” the posting said, adding that over the years, “Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life.

“In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he’s been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.”

Obama wrote that he had known of similar statements by Wright over the years, which he strongly condemned. He wrote that he chose to remain in the church because “Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community.”

Clinton adviser gives Obama a pass
There was no formal reaction from the Clinton campaign, but Lanny Davis, a senior adviser, said he took Obama at his word.

“I give Senator Obama completely — completely — the benefit of the doubt that he has nothing to do with this bigotry that’s being spewed forth by this man,” Davis said on MSNBC’s “Tucker.” “For me, that’s all he has to say.

“I think we should stop this guilt-by-association thing, because some of our supporters say stupid things,” Davis said.

But the videos created a firestorm among political observers and commentators.

“Mr. Obama obviously would not choose to belong to Mr. Wright’s church and seek his advice unless he agreed with at least some of his views,” Wall Street Journal columnist Ron Kessler, publisher of the conservative Web site NewsMax.com, wrote Friday.

Kathryn Jean Lopez, editor of the Web site of the conservative magazine National Review, wrote Friday that “now we know he’s contributed money to, voluntarily listened to, and publicly defended a cleric who peddles racial warfare.”

Others saw an attempt to “smear” Obama.

“How come righteous Republicans are rarely asked about the views of their spiritual advisers? Or why wasn’t George W. Bush (and the presidents preceding him) forced to distance himself from the anti-semitic comments of Billy Graham?” Ari Berman wrote Friday on the Web site of the liberal magazine The Nation, for which he is a contributing writer.

Why are sermons an issue now?
The videotapes of Wright’s sermons have long been available for sale on the church’s Web site, raising questions about why they suddenly became an issue again late Thursday, NBC’s Ron Allen reported.

Although both candidates have disavowed them, recent exchanges between supporters of Obama and Clinton have focused on themes of race and sex.

Geraldine Ferraro, the Democrats’ 1984 vice presidential nominee, resigned as an adviser to Clinton’s campaign Wednesday after she was quoted last week in a California newspaper suggesting that Obama owed his popularity to his race.

“If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position,” she said, according to the Daily Breeze of Torrance. “And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position.”

Last week, Obama’s foreign policy adviser, Samantha Power, a public policy professor at Harvard University, stepped down from the campaign after she was quoted in an interview with a Scottish newspaper calling Clinton a “monster [who] is stooping to anything.”

“You just look at her and think, ‘Ergh,’” Power said, according to The Scotsman.

Last month, Adelfa Callejo, a longtime Latino activist in Texas who supports Clinton, suggested that Latino voters would never accept Obama because of his race. “They never really supported us, and there’s a lot of hard feelings about that,” Callejo said.

And after Obama won the South Carolina primary, Clinton’s husband, the former president, dismissed the significance of his victory by saying it was to be expected because “Jesse Jackson won South Carolina twice.”

Advisers said Obama and Clinton were distressed by the exchanges and had agreed in a brief conversation on the Senate floor Thursday to work together to put a stop to them.

“They approached one another and spoke about how supporters for both campaigns have said things they reject,” said Phil Singer, a spokesman for the Clinton campaign. “They agreed that the contrasts between their respective records, qualifications and issues should be what drives this campaign, and nothing else.”

The Associated Press reported that an adviser to Obama, speaking on condition of anonymity, gave a similar account of the conversation.
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Post by Knife »

I've seen the occasional clip of this guy and I have to admit, while I support Obama, his minister is a real asshat. I can't think of any context where his hellfire and shit would make sense. I don't blame Obama for it but it sure was a little uncomfortable having him be a member of that church.
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Post by Oni Koneko Damien »

Alright, Clinton has the chance to score some *major* respect points from me, and probably quite a few others right now. All she has to do is come out and issue a press release that goes something along the lines of, "I heard about what the reverend said, and I don't care. This race is about the candidates and their views, not about the views of people they associate with."

Of course I doubt she will, but I'm a bit of a foolish optimist.
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Post by SCRawl »

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:Alright, Clinton has the chance to score some *major* respect points from me, and probably quite a few others right now. All she has to do is come out and issue a press release that goes something along the lines of, "I heard about what the reverend said, and I don't care. This race is about the candidates and their views, not about the views of people they associate with."

Of course I doubt she will, but I'm a bit of a foolish optimist.
The article wrote:Clinton adviser gives Obama a pass
There was no formal reaction from the Clinton campaign, but Lanny Davis, a senior adviser, said he took Obama at his word.

“I give Senator Obama completely — completely — the benefit of the doubt that he has nothing to do with this bigotry that’s being spewed forth by this man,” Davis said on MSNBC’s “Tucker.” “For me, that’s all he has to say.

“I think we should stop this guilt-by-association thing, because some of our supporters say stupid things,” Davis said.
It isn't Clinton saying it, but it sounds pretty close to your hopes being realized.
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Post by Cairber »

Looks like people are really reacting to this story:

poll numbers
Most voters, 56%, said Wright’s comments made them less likely to vote for Obama. That figure includes 44% of Democrats. Just 11% of voters say they are more likely to vote for Obama because of Wright’s comments.
Obama's favorable numbers have also dropped another 5% in the week this story has been out.
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Post by Noble Ire »

Cairber wrote:Looks like people are really reacting to this story:

poll numbers
Most voters, 56%, said Wright’s comments made them less likely to vote for Obama. That figure includes 44% of Democrats. Just 11% of voters say they are more likely to vote for Obama because of Wright’s comments.
Obama's favorable numbers have also dropped another 5% in the week this story has been out.
The fickleness and impressionability of the American populace never ceases to amaze and disturb me. One would think that, especially after months of such a highly-charged political campaign, we would have developed a somewhat thicker skin. Then again, I suppose that this dip in approval might be based more on Clinton's relentless attempts to undermine Obama on every front, regardless of the long-term consquences. If this keeps up past Pennsylvania, I really don't see how either Democrat can take the Oval Office in November.
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Post by FSTargetDrone »

This has no influence on my vote for Obama, but I must say, I myself would never associate with such an individual, and I would cease continuing to attend such sermons. I would also not have such a person perform my marriage ceremony.

Frankly, Obama needs to distance himself from this man. Friend or not, it cannot help him.

But let us not forget the pair of religious jackasses that McCain has actually gone out and solicited support from. One would think that would be all that's needed to counter any stain from this, but I guess it isn't.
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Post by Coyote »

The whole thing is a smokescreen, and Frank Schaeffer on the Huffington Post points out why.

How many white, right-wing Republican preachers have made not only anti-Semitic remarks (Billy Graham), but also condemned America for supporting gays and abortion? And I'm not just talking about the Westboro shit-eaters.
Frank Schaeffer wrote:Every Sunday thousands of right wing white preachers (following in my father's footsteps) rail against America's sins from tens of thousands of pulpits. They tell us that America is complicit in the "murder of the unborn," has become "Sodom" by coddling gays, and that our public schools are sinful places full of evolutionists and sex educators hell-bent on corrupting children. They say, as my dad often did, that we are, "under the judgment of God." They call America evil and warn of immanent destruction. By comparison Obama's minister's shouted "controversial" comments were mild. All he said was that God should damn America for our racism and violence and that no one had ever used the N-word about Hillary Clinton.

Dad and I were amongst the founders of the Religious right. In the 1970s and 1980s, while Dad and I crisscrossed America denouncing our nation's sins instead of getting in trouble we became darlings of the Republican Party. (This was while I was my father's sidekick before I dropped out of the evangelical movement altogether.) We were rewarded for our "stand" by people such as Congressman Jack Kemp, the Fords, Reagan and the Bush family. The top Republican leadership depended on preachers and agitators like us to energize their rank and file. No one called us un-American.
People are just being stirred up by the image that most terrifies and intimidates the average white American voter: the Angry Black Man.
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In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
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Post by Elfdart »

In another sermon, delivered five days after the 9/11 attacks, Wright seems to imply that the United States had brought the terrorist violence on itself.
Big deal. Ulysses Grant wrote that the Civil War (600,000 dead) was divine retribution against the country for its evil deeds, namely slavery and the Mexican War. I don't believe in gods of any kind, let alone gods who smite the wicked. But the idea that Wright's comments are noteworthy is absurd.

All Christian preachers sermonize about how those who do evil face retribution in this world or the next. There's no evidence of Wright trying to stir up trouble the way Christian Zionists do by footing the bill for Israeli squatters to ethnicly cleanse the West Bank so Baby Jesus can return (like John Hagee). I seriously doubt that Wright would be advising a President Obama to slaughter large numbers of civilians the way Billy Graham did with Nixon.

But then, those other preachers aren't "uppity negroes" like Wright and sliming them doesn't help in smearing Obama.
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Post by Glocksman »

This is part of a larger post I made in my local paper's comments page WRT Reverend Wright;
Glocksman wrote:Wright is angry and it comes out in his rhetoric.
The legitimate question to ask is does Obama *share* Wright's anger and 'us versus them' mentality.

From all I've seen and read, he doesn't share that anger and worldview though he does see many of the same injustices.
If I thought Obama shared Wright's anger, more extreme views (e.g.; US created AIDS) and divisive outlook, I'd sooner vote for Blondi*.
As it is, I don't believe he does.



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Post by FSTargetDrone »

Mm-hm. One of the clowns McCain sucked up to for support insists that Katrina was the result of God's wrath due to flagrant and open acceptance of homosexuality in New Orleans.

But of course this getting more coverage.
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Post by Coyote »

Glocksman wrote:If I thought Obama shared Wright's anger, more extreme views (e.g.; US created AIDS) and divisive outlook, I'd sooner vote for Blondi*.


*Hitler's dog, not the 70's disco diva.
Well... Blondi was a German Shepherd, and that makes her at least partially yellow, so congratulations-- you are now a Yellow Dog Democrat! :D
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."


In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!

If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
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Post by Elfdart »

Coyote wrote: People are just being stirred up by the image that most terrifies and intimidates the average white American voter: the Angry Black Man.
He's getting the Harold Ford treatment. I'm going to set the over/under line at April 15 for when the innuendo begins about Obama being a Mandingo Buck who's only in it for the white bitches.

What I find hilarious is the way MSNBC uses hack writers from the Neo-Nazi -er, National Review to play the guilt by association game. National Review's founder and patron saint (William Buckley) was an avowed white supremacist, Jew-baiter and groupie for Franco and Pinochet. He might have kicked the bucket a few weeks ago, but his paranoid racism is SOP at his magazine, like this gem by Lisa Schiffren about how Obama was the result of a Kommie-Negro-Jooooo plot to breed a generation of mixed-race Manchurian Candidates:

Link

Another Link

Then they have Mona "like the Banshee" Charen with this bit of imbecility:
Obama's True Beliefs
[Mona Charen]

Derb: I am coming to believe that Barack Obama is one of the greatest con artists we've seen. His entire campaign has been about "coming together," a post-racial consensus, etc. Any mention of his middle name was immediately condemned as ignorant fear-mongering. He has played the role of racial unifier with great skill and finesse.

But there is a great deal of evidence out there that he is anything but. The Reverend Wright is exhibit A. Mrs. Obama is Exhibit B. But there's lots more. Here is a piece by John Batchelor about some of Obama's other connections. For example:

William Ayers is the second Chicago figure to consider in the political profile of Mr. Obama. William C. Ayers, known as Bill Ayers, is notorious as a terrorist bomber from the 1970s who, on September 11, 2001, in the New York Times was quoted as finding "a certain eloquence in bombs." Now, at 62, Mr. Ayers, a former aide to the current Mayor Richard M. Daley, is an established professor of education at the University of Illinois in Chicago. Importantly, Mr. Ayers and his wife, the equally notorious Weatherman terrorist Bernardine Dohrn, hosted a crucial meet-the-candidate event in their Hyde Park neighborhood home in 1995 when Mr. Obama, also a Hyde Park resident, was sounded out by vital citizens, among them the retiring state senator Alice Palmer for the 13th District.
First of all, Human Events is on the same level as MEMRI and Darkstar's website, only without those sites' respect for the truth. So the idea that Obama has any connection to the Weather Underground should be dismissed as bullshit until it comes from a real source with evidence other than the claim that Obama was once in a house with a guy who did X 20 years earlier.
Obama's book is strewn with hints of his far left sympathies
as when he tells an African cousin who complains about the hardships of life in Kenya that things are no better in America. Or when he suggests that the lives of poor black young men in the inner city are blighted by white racism. He never says it explicitly, but it's there.

He has been very friendly with Rashid Khaladi, the fierce anti-Israel professor who took Edward Said's post at Columbia.

My own theory, FWIW, is that Obama acquired his far left views at least in part to make himself as authentically black as he could to compensate for having a white mother. His mother, of course, was very left herself. But looking the way he does, and having been raised among only white people (mother and maternal grandparents) he felt the need to better identify with his black heritage. That struggle is what the book is all about.
I have a much more plausible theory:

When Charen, Schiffren and the other racist fucktards at the Neo-Nazi Review burned crosses, they used wood that was treated with hallucinogenic chemicals and inhaled the smoke.
One can have sympathy for his psychological predicament . But that sympathy certainly does not extend to electing him president of a country that I sincerely believe he does not love.
Project often, Ms Charen? If anyone has a psychological predicament, it's a race-baiting moron who wrote a flowery eulogy for fellow white supremacist Jesse Helms in spite of the fact that Helms isn't even dead yet (though not so anyone would notice).

There's going to be more of this bullshit to try to turn Obama into:

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Post by Superboy »

FSTargetDrone wrote:Mm-hm. One of the clowns McCain sucked up to for support insists that Katrina was the result of God's wrath due to flagrant and open acceptance of homosexuality in New Orleans.
Anyone got a link to a story or two about this? I haven't bothered following along with anything on the republican side, but I'd like to find out about this guy and how closely he's tied to McCain's campaign.
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Post by D.Turtle »

One Example:

[quote="McCain ˜Very Honored" By Support Of Pastor Preaching ˜End-Time Confrontation With Iran""] Yesterday, hard-line conservative Pastor John Hagee, founder of Christians United for Israel, endorsed John McCain. Hagee said that McCain “is a man of principle, [who] does not stand boldly on both sides of any issue.” McCain, who had been courting the endorsement for over a year, said that he was “very honored by Pastor John Hagee’s endorsement.”

Demonstrating how wildly out of the American religious and political mainstream Hagee’s views are, McCain’s acceptance of Hagee’s endorsement was condemned today by conservative William Donohue, president of the Catholic League. Calling Hagee a “bigot,” Donahue said the right-wing pastor has waged “an unrelenting war against the Catholic Church” by “calling it ‘The Great Whore,’ an ‘apostate church,’ the ‘anti-Christ,’ and a ‘false cult system.’”

Hagee holds many other radical beliefs. In a 2006 address to CUFI, Hagee declared:

The United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God’s plan for both Israel and the West… a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation, and Second Coming of Christ.

Speaking to the 2007 AIPAC conference, Hagee compared supporters of a two-state solution in the Middle East to Nazis. Hagee also echoed right-wing Israeli politician Binyamin Netanyahu, telling the audience that “Iran is Germany and Ahmadinejad is the new Hitler.”

Paging Tim Russert: Someone should ask John McCain if, unlike Hagee, he supports a two-state solution for Israel and Palestine, and whether he believes that a military strike against Iran would “fulfill God’s plan for…a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation” as Hagee does.

UPDATE: Faith in Public Life has more.

UPDATE II: Hagee’s tv show, “John Hagee Today,” is also broadcast on Cornerstone Television. In 1999, McCain wrote to the FCC on behalf of campaign contributor Lowell “Bud” Paxson, urging a deal that would have made $17.5 million for Cornerstone. [/quote]
If you follow the url, they have lots of links to sources for most of that.
Talking Points Memo wrote:McCain's statement on Hagee, his new endorser, who calls the Catholic Church the "great whore" and "anti-christ" ...
"Yesterday, Pastor John Hagee endorsed my candidacy for president in San Antonio, Texas. However, in no way did I intend for his endorsement to suggest that I in turn agree with all of Pastor Hagee's views, which I obviously do not.

"I am hopeful that Catholics, Protestants and all people of faith who share my vision for the future of America will respond to our message of defending innocent life, traditional marriage, and compassion for the most vulnerable in our society."
So he welcomes Hagee's endorsement for president, though that doesn't mean he agree with all his views.

Let's run down some specifics.

Hagee says that if America presses Israel allow the Palestinians to found a state in the West Bank and Gaza God will "release the terrorists" to come to America to create a "bloodbath." (See this video, at approximately time mark 3:00)

Hagee says that God brought the Katrina disaster down on New Orleans because of a planned "homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came ... that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades."

Then there's Hagee on why the Jews have had such a rough time of it for the last couple thousand years ...
"It was the disobedience and rebellion of the Jews, God's chosen people, to their covenantal responsibility to serve only the one true God, Jehovah, that gave rise to the opposition and persecution that they experienced beginning in Canaan and continuing to this very day....

How utterly repulsive, insulting, and heartbreaking to God for His chosen people to credit idols with bringing blessings He had showered upon the chosen people. Their own rebellion had birthed the seed of anti-Semitism that would arise and bring destruction to them for centuries to come.... it rises from the judgment of God uppon his rebellious chosen people." ["Jerusalem Countdown: A Prelude To War", paperback edition, pages 92 and 93]
Now, I'll be the first to admit that those aren't exactly neutral sources (are there any?), but they do have links to support the statements included.

In other words: Some months ago, Obamas pastor said "God damn America." Obama then issued a statement repudiating those statements of his pastor. McCains pastor calls the Catholic Church "the Great Whore" and McCain says he was taken out of context.

The media therefore slams Obama again and again about his connection while leaving McCain alone. You've got to love the objectivity.

Actually looking through the stuff in the opening post - its quite harmless.
“Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain’t never been called a [N-word]!”
OMG a black person used the N-word - he's a racist!
“We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is brought right back in our own front yards.”
Can you feel the hate for America?!
“No, no, no, not God bless America — God damn America!”
Hmm, love it how they give the context.
Here is the context:
ABC News wrote:"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
Can you feel the hate?
Actually, its not really sad that Obamas pastor said such EEEEEEVIL things - its sad that his statements are interpreted as evil, american-hating things.
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Post by Max »

What's that old saying: “Tell me who your friends are, and I will tell who you are."

He may not 'agree' with the things his minister has said, but he's been going to him for the last 20 years... which I can't imagine someone doing unless they believed, on some level, what was being preached.
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Post by Surlethe »

Max wrote:What's that old saying: “Tell me who your friends are, and I will tell who you are."
I'm friends with atheists and fundamentalists. You mind telling me who I am? Or perhaps you might just wish to not make arguments based on cute sayings.
He may not 'agree' with the things his minister has said, but he's been going to him for the last 20 years... which I can't imagine someone doing unless they believed, on some level, what was being preached.
That's not clear; there are many reasons people attend church beside good sermons, including social networking and just plain habit. By the way, just how frequently did this minister preach these inflammatory topics?
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
F. Douglass
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starfury
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Post by starfury »

He may not 'agree' with the things his minister has said, but he's been going to him for the last 20 years... which I can't imagine someone doing unless they believed, on some level, what was being preached.
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The same can be said of the Republicans and Clinton, though I doubt they will be put under the same microscope, as Elfdart and D.Turtle's link shows.
"a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic"-Joseph Stalin

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"Women prefer stories about one person dying slowly. Men prefer stories of many people dying quickly."-Niles from Frasier.
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brianeyci
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Post by brianeyci »

I haven't been to church more than a handful of times in my life, but I think the key is religious people view their relationship with God and with their Ministers as family.

Viewed that way, that pithy saying doesn't mean much. Obama has straight out come and said that Minister is like the crazy uncle nobody listens to. It's possible to love someone but not agree with them on everything.

Judge a person based on his family and I guarantee you'll come to the wrong conclusions nine times out of ten.
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Cairber
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Post by Cairber »

anyone watching/listening to Obama's speech on this???

Wow, it's amazing. Here is the text:

text
Say NO to circumcision IT'S A BOY! This is a great link to show expecting parents.

I boycott Nestle; ask me why!
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Knife
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Post by Knife »

Yeah, new thread on it actually.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Admiral Valdemar
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

What? This Obama guy knows an asshat personally?

Fuck that! Now I have to go with the other party. I'm sorry, sir, but your many great attributes and superior campaign trail are a waste if you happen to have met a clown with many hilariously deranged YouTube videos.

Do I pass for being a US voter yet?
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Warsie
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Post by Warsie »

Coyote wrote: People are just being stirred up by the image that most terrifies and intimidates the average white American voter: the Angry Black Man.
Thank you. I agree. They should try to legitimately prove Jeremiah Wright Wrong on his statements on American Imperialism, the hipocrisy of the Founding Fathers, etc rather than simply say it's 'unamerican'.

Interestingly I think many blacks agree with Jeremaiah Wright.
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The Original Nex
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Post by The Original Nex »

OH NOES now a photo of the good Reverend with none other than B. Clinton has been uncovered!!! :o

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/2 ... 92670.html

No wonder Clinton wants her campaign to be quiet about him, she doesn't want the media to pounce and label her a hypocrite.

But seriously, I am amazed at the hypocrisy of the Repugs and the media in reporting the Obama-Wright story. Stephen Colbert did a good job at highlighting that angry blacks hardly have a monopoly on wacjob clergy. One only needs to look at the current pandering of John McCain to the likes of Robertson, Hagee and Falwell (pre-death) to see that the Republicans have loads of their own hate-spewing religious figures who have a real hand in controlling the Republican base.

Of course I forget; it's all right for angry, white Christians to spout hate at America as they fill Republican coffers; but when a black man does it and god-forbid supports a Democrat! Why my Lord, that's front page news and a possible campaign killer!! :roll:
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