What do you think of singapore's government?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Perhaps so. I suppose we're somewhat on different wavelengths on this - I'm certainly a lot more tolerant of our governments autocratic tendencies.

To be fair when I was in Singapore, what I noticed was a terrific public transport system, clean streets and prices that made me feel poor (in Malaysia, I am comfortably middle class). I didn't exactly go out of my way to wander to an opposition HDB flat or consider that the old folks working is a symptom of a failing welfare state or whatever. I'm sure I missed many of Singapore's faults

Well, to be honest, our transportation system reached a saturation point some years back, and even our Government, after a lot of rumblings on the ground for years about the lack of improvement in transportation services, admitted at much and were getting about the business of expanding it. Though whether that helps or not, well, I don't really care much these days, unless it starts hindering my ability to go to work.

We don't quite have a "welfare state". It's a dirty word insofar as the government is considered, but prefer some form of "passionate conservatism" where you fund your own retirement and the state won't give a swat if you didn't earn enough. As for old folks working, it's probably largely due to the fact that the old folks didn't have much of an education level to have earned enough CPF (if they even have CPF) to be able to retire well off enough.

[PainRack]

Well, to be honest, our transportation system reached a saturation point some years back, and even our Government, after a lot of rumblings on the ground for years about the lack of improvement in transportation services, admitted at much and were getting about the business of expanding it. Though whether that helps or not, well, I don't really care much these days, unless it starts hindering my ability to go to work.

I always find it amsuing that Fingolfin and I can look at the same data and come up to totally different stands and conclusions.

but prefer some form of "passionate conservatism" where you fund your own retirement and the state won't give a swat if you didn't earn enough. As for old folks working, it's probably largely due to the fact that the old folks didn't have much of an education level to have earned enough CPF (if they even have CPF) to be able to retire well off enough.

And as usual, the story is much more complicated that that. The problems with the safety net lies with children. If you had a large family with children in the middle class, the social safety networks with regards to the elderly and needy doesn't apply to you, and even the local charity networks will find it hard to step in.

The real problem rests in the funding of charities. Charities are required to come up with their own funds or receiving subsidies from Community Chest, a government aligned organisation. Any direct government aid comes from reduced rates and other subsidies with regards to operations. There isn't any real direct government aid(although the government occasionally matches dollar for dollar funding).

[AniThyng]

I always find it amsuing that Fingolfin and I can look at the same data and come up to totally different stands and conclusions.

Indeed, that's quite amusing. But that's the beauty of free speech and thought - and sooner or later we'll see who's right

but prefer some form of "passionate conservatism" where you fund your own retirement and the state won't give a swat if you didn't earn enough. As for old folks working, it's probably largely due to the fact that the old folks didn't have much of an education level to have earned enough CPF (if they even have CPF) to be able to retire well off enough.

True, I had the impression that Singapore had some sort of social safety net, but then again, i've also heard criticism to the effect that singapore is a young person's country and they have no time or need to care for thier elderly.

My father believes it's not so much that older singaporeans are unskilled so much as it is they are overqualified and are let go to "save costs" and let "younger people" take thier jobs. Which I'm sure is a load of bullshit, confirmation would be appreciated. *shrugs*

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I always find it amsuing that Fingolfin and I can look at the same data and come up to totally different stands and conclusions.

I don't give a swat about Government data, when I have to fight with passengers and wait for up to 2-3 damn MRT trains just to get on board in the morning, or occasionally even do the same for buses in the morning. You can stuff that data in the dustbin.

And as usual, the story is much more complicated that that. The problems with the safety net lies with children. If you had a large family with children in the middle class, the social safety networks with regards to the elderly and needy doesn't apply to you, and even the local charity networks will find it hard to step in.

The idea of relying on kids is a bloody stupid idea insofar as concerned no doubt rooted in stupid Chinese ideas of filial piety. As much as I have nothing against it, their children themselves have their own problems to deal with, and less relied upon, the bloody better.

The real problem rests in the funding of charities. Charities are required to come up with their own funds or receiving subsidies from Community Chest, a government aligned organisation. Any direct government aid comes from reduced rates and other subsidies with regards to operations. There isn't any real direct government aid(although the government occasionally matches dollar for dollar funding).

That is for our Government to figure out, not me. Quite frankly, I don't give a swat since I'd prefer people are empowered by more reliable sources than someone's charity and good graces.

True, I had the impression that Singapore had some sort of social safety net, but then again, i've also heard criticism to the effect that singapore is a young person's country and they have no time or need to care for thier elderly.

There is some degree of a net, but it sucks to be in the middle class. I'm not too sure how well the care for elderly goes, but if it is any indication, families these days often have both parents working just so to start saving up for retirement, for children's education and a whole other laundry list of things.

My father believes it's not so much that older singaporeans are unskilled so much as it is they are overqualified and are let go to "save costs" and let "younger people" take thier jobs. Which I'm sure is a load of bullshit, confirmation would be appreciated. *shrugs

He might not be too far off the mark.

[PainRack]

I don't give a swat about Government data, when I have to fight with passengers and wait for up to 2-3 damn MRT trains just to get on board in the morning, or occasionally even do the same for buses in the morning. You can stuff that data in the dustbin.

I was actually referring more to the expansion of the transport network than anything. The expansion is being done so as to meet the possibility of a 6 million population. Not because the companies/authories feel that the current networks are saturated.

The idea of relying on kids is a bloody stupid idea insofar as concerned no doubt rooted in stupid Chinese ideas of filial piety. As much as I have nothing against it, their children themselves have their own problems to deal with, and less relied upon, the bloody better.

My point was, its not that there isn't a social net available. Its the fact that the safety net DOESN"T apply to people with existing family.

That is for our Government to figure out, not me. Quite frankly, I don't give a swat since I'd prefer people are empowered by more reliable sources than someone's charity and good graces.

Its working "relatively" well. I have a nagging suspicion that the reason why its working well though is because they exclude a good number of people, namely, those with a surviving family network.

There is some degree of a net, but it sucks to be in the middle class. I'm not too sure how well the care for elderly goes, but if it is any indication, families these days often have both parents working just so to start saving up for retirement, for children's education and a whole other laundry list of things.

Unfortunately, that's modern living in any country with a high cost of living. The sandwiched generation are only going to suffer more as the population ages, as that would mean that the future generation would be taxed more so as to sustain existing social services. Incidently, that's one of the reason why immigration is being so hotly pursued.

[Glocksman]

Ignoring all posts in this thread, my 'off the cuff' opinion is:

Your government is as 'authoritarian' as it gets without being a genuine dictatorship.

That said, at least it does pay attention to the 'rules' of democracy.


IOW, while I don't think Singapore's government is the epitome of democracy, I don't believe they're the epitome of evil, either.

If I had to choose between living under the PRC or the Singapore government, It'd be Singapore hands down.