Anzac day

[hongi]

This may be a tad controversial, but I'm a little suspicious of the swing in popularity of ANZAC day in Australia. I, like many Australians, commemorate the day. So I don't have anything against the day itself.

It's just that recently, the Anzac celebrations seem to have greatly increased in popularity and more importantly, publicity. If I'm not wrong, the number of ads, tv shows and documentaries devoted to covering the day has increased year by year. Until even a week before hand, the tv is saturated with stories about the ANZACs, movies, interviews, Kokoda trail highlights etc. There are some that are really well done. And there are some that seem to be uh...cashing in on the popularity. IMO.

Other than the egregious examples of Channel 7 and *cough*Kochie*cough* I'm really wondering where the current interest in ANZAC day has come from. I can still remember when Martin Place wasn't packed for the Dawn Service. Did I miss something?

[Gandalf]

A key factor seems to be that patriotism's been pretty popular ever since the Cronulla riots.

[bobalot]

It's called loud mouth patriotism. It seemed to be something only Americans used to do.

I remember going to my first Anzac day memorial. It was very solemn. It was truly a day to remember our war dead, their sacrifices and the carnage of war. Now it's a goddamn circus. Half these morons don't even know the causes of the First World War.

It's a lazy mans show of patriotism.

A patriot is somebody who does something to make their country a better place. Volunteer work, Giving to charity, Medical research. etc. Real things that make the country a better place.

You see, people are fucking lazy. They want to seem 'patriotic' without actually doing anything meaningful. How does buying and waving a flag made made in China make you patriotic? It doesn't. It's a lazy persons patriotism.

Save us from the pseudo patriots.

[Pelranius]

The Chinese and Russians have also discovered the joys of flag waving and chest thumping.

I for one blame the marketing departments.

[tim31]

It's what these so-called 'pilgrims' are doing every year to Anzac Cove that's a worry.

[Stuart Mackey]

In NZ it has morphed, or seems to have, into a political event where politicians can 'remember those who have fallen'( get favourable publicity shots)..oh and overlook why people fought via misdirection, and as a good way to keep peoples minds off how far screwed the armed forces are at the hands of those same politicians. Nationalism has not reared its ugly head here so far, fortunately.

[Spyder]

From here at least it seems to come and go without any fuss. There are dawn services by all the local memorials, but that's about it really.

Maybe Kiwis just aren't that nationalistic?

[thejester]

Other than the egregious examples of Channel 7 and *cough*Kochie*cough* I'm really wondering where the current interest in ANZAC day has come from. I can still remember when Martin Place wasn't packed for the Dawn Service. Did I miss something?

It started to pick up 10-15 years ago, coinciding but perhaps not totally inspired by the burial of the Unknown Soldier and the 50th Anniversary of the end of WW2 (and possibly the bicentenary). The Howard government got behind it in a big way, unsurprisingly given how it is starting to breed mindless patriotism. The takeoff of Anzac tourism and the popularity of Anzac footy have just been nails in the coffin, really - transformation of a solemn holiday into chest-thumping patriotism.

[weemadando]

Yeah, it's really a revitalisation of patriotism. Actually, strike patriotism - jingoism/blind nationalism, because most of the idiots who attend now couldn't tell you what the fucking wars were about, let alone which side we were on.

It's all about wearing an Australian flag as a cape and hating immigrants now. Because immigrants aren't diggers.

[KlavoHunter]

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[KlavoHunter]

Well, bugger, HTML's off.

[loomer]

I still attend my town's dawn service, and I intend to visit Anzac cove some day.

Of course, unlike the new surge of jingoistic fucks, I've been doing it since I was two and do it to remember the dead.

[weemadando]

I have usually gone to the dawn service (harder since moving to Melbourne) and in the past had usually attended with my grandfather, a man who had never glorified what had happened in the war and really instilled in me the fact that it is a day of remembrance - not just for the Australian forces, but for all who lost their lives, allies, enemies, civilians.

[Havok]

It's called loud mouth patriotism. It seemed to be something only Americans used to do.

Oh go fuck yourself. "Hey look everyone I bash America too can I fit in pleeeease."

OT: What is ANZAC? I will do a google search after I ask this, but are there any good sites or references that you guys down under can point this loud mouth American towards?

[loomer]

ANZAC is itself the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps. In this case, it refers to WW1 ANZAC in which a cock up resulted in hellish loss of life in Turkey, and which essentially 'proved' us in the eyes of the world as being tough soldiers.

[Havok]

ANZAC is itself the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps. In this case, it refers to WW1 ANZAC in which a cock up resulted in hellish loss of life in Turkey, and which essentially 'proved' us in the eyes of the world as being tough soldiers.

I just finished reading up on it. Seems like it has grown into your equivalent of our Memorial Day. I don't know how we would feel about having a rock concert at Arlington National Cemetery, to celebrate it, but... yeah.

And just for the record, my friend who was a Marine, trained with some Australian soldiers, and according to him, the tough soldier reputation is well fucking deserved.

[Glocksman]

A co-worker of mine who was in the US Marine Corps said that the toughest bastards he ever encountered were ROK (Republic of Korea) Marines.

The way he put it was that while they weren't big on initiative, they were physically the toughest he'd ever trained with and one on one could have kicked his ass.

[weemadando]

A co-worker of mine who was in the US Marine Corps said that the toughest bastards he ever encountered were ROK (Republic of Korea) Marines.

The way he put it was that while they weren't big on initiative, they were physically the toughest he'd ever trained with and one on one could have kicked his ass.

The stories I've heard from Korean acquaintences and through military and ex-military folk who have had the ...errr - Pleasure?... is that the South Korean Military Police are perhaps the most intense individuals that they have ever encountered. Their uniform includes aviator shades for fucks sake. AND THEY STILL LOOK BAD-ARSE.

The apocryphal tale (I'm assuming it is) about them having guys who's job it is to stand at a parade-rest ALL DAY watching a particular corner. And by that, I mean that apparently they stand with about half their body behind the corner with just enough clearance that in that parade rest position both eyes can see the area that they have to watch.

Even if that story isn't true, the tales of their ferocious non-emotiveness sway me to say that stories of Korean bad-arsery should never be discounted.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Well, given the violent annual obligatory strikes the Koreans have, their police jolly well better be equipped for the job.

[hongi]

Tales of Korean bad-arsery are probably overblown a tad. I can safely say that the same doesn't apply to the ordinary conscripted soldier. Conscription really doesn't do wonders for morale.

ANZAC is itself the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps. In this case, it refers to WW1 ANZAC in which a cock up resulted in hellish loss of life in Turkey, and which essentially 'proved' us in the eyes of the world as being tough soldiers.

I'm really happy that for the first time, they televised the memorial service at Villers-Bretonneux. Gallipoli might have been the shore where the nation had its trial of fire, but Europe proper was where thousands of our servicemen died. My best friend had three family members fighting on that front and he read their letters out for our school's ceremony.

I'm all for knowing more about them, I just hate the stupid attitudes that go along with it. I don't know if patriotism is the first thing Australians should be feeling on this day. They died fighting for Britain on foreign lands and did so in huge numbers. It's sad.

The 100th anniversary isn't too far away. I wonder what it will look like.

[loomer]

There's no better reason to be patriotic than for the British Em- er, Commonwealth. Unfortunately, Gallipolli is probably part of why they died in such huge numbers in later theaters - the reputation they earned probably got them assigned to the deadliest trenches.

[Jade Falcon]

There's no better reason to be patriotic than for the British Em- er, Commonwealth. Unfortunately, Gallipolli is probably part of why they died in such huge numbers in later theaters - the reputation they earned probably got them assigned to the deadliest trenches.

On a similiar tangent, I read that up until WW1, it was commonplace in the UK for the Scottish Regiments to be assigned to the toughest places which reflected their high casualties, could be a similiar policy.

[bobalot]

It's called loud mouth patriotism. It seemed to be something only Americans used to do.

Oh go fuck yourself. "Hey look everyone I bash America too can I fit in pleeeease."

Your country is famous for its jingoistic patriotic bullshit. Just look at all the flags and crap everywhere.

It hasn't gotten so bad here, but there are more and more jingoistic douches walking around making pricks of themselves.

[bobalot]

I admit, America isn't only country filled with guys who are into chest-thumping patriotism. I was probably wrong to single America out.

Only problem is, when these types of people get elected in America, things like Iraq happen. Which is why America first came to mind.