Measles cases at 12 year high.

[Psychic_Sandwich]

What I want to know is where in the fucking hell this idea came from. There's not even a significant correlation, so why would people buy it in significant numbers?

In 1998, a paper was published in the Lancet which linked the MMR jab to developmental regression and gastrointestinal problems in the 12 children involved in the study. This was widely trumpeted by the media. Understandably, the vaccination rate dropped; there was a doctor on TV saying that it was dangerous to have the MMR jab. Of course, the fact that he suggested giving the three vaccines separately instead, not just foregoing them entirely, flew right over these people's heads.

Incidentally, Dr Wakefield, the lead researcher, has since admitted that there was never any connection suggested by the results, and the General Medical Council is investigating him on charges of professional misconduct over the whole study. Apparently, he did some pretty shady things, like bribing children to give blood samples.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I just shelled out $120.00 (fortunately someone else is picking up the tab eventually) to have myself tested to see whether or not I'm immune to the MMR sequence--my parents bought into the anti-vaccine stuff when I was 5 (that would be in 1988, I wonder why this is a coincidence, oh, it isn't) and I'm not sure if I had my full vaccine sequence or not. I know my sister never did, the poor girl, though I Hope she got it when she went to uni--the problem is religious exemptions are possible, that's how I originally got into uni but now that I'm out from under their thumb it's time to track down and figure out if I do in fact still need anything, and then get it taken care of. Especially now. Hopefully not; I had a reaction to the last shot I had at age 5 (arm swelled up, they put me on steroids, it went down in a couple of days) and regardless it would cost about sixty bucks if it was MMR, and the steroids could be substantially more if I had a similar reaction in the future, having been re-vaccinated. This is all so I can go to WSU safely, of course.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Autism and antivaccines advocates are unapologetic about the return of measles.

I eternally loathe people who call themselves 'Autism advocates', but who support antivaccination, ABA(Hint: 5 percent success rate via a PC-version of Aversion Therapy is not a Cure), and other stupidity.

Do you know if any of the originators of ABA worked as a neurologist at Madigan Army Hospital in the 1950s/60's (might have also been a medical facility at Fort Lawton, I can't remember which it was, my dad ran the psych wings in both at various points)? Because my father told me that he dealt with an autistic patient in those days and managed to get him "to excel at school and certain sports activities" (son of a soldier on the base) after very substantial effort and that, during that period he had asked the hospital's neurologist if he knew anything about autism; he had never heard of it, the neurologist answered, and he asked for all of my father's casework. About a decade later my father saw some information about him in an APA journal giving lectures on a treatment method of autism he had developed, and he had apparently ended up (the neurologist) a world-leader at the time in autism treatment.

And so the story went. Your bringing up ABA--because it sounded familiar--made me want to know if it was possible if my father was tangentially responsible for it. That would go up there with dinner parties with Wolfowitz and Perle in the hillside manse of Henry M. Jackson as part of the general record of infamy in my family.

[SirNitram]

West Coast, 1950s-60s period.. It's about the time when ABA was 'mainstreaming' into treatment for undesirables; autistics and homosexuals. Autism at the time was considered a form of Schizomania, and ABA/IBI was put into heavy use.

Caution: The following pictures, of ABA treatment from that era, may disturb some people. Not terribly graphic, but child abuse is never easy to look at.

Pic 1 of 2

Pic 2 of 2

Yes, that floor is electrified, and yes, that thing on the back allows control of when it forms a circuit.

'World Leader' suggest Lovaas. You may be one degree of seperation from evil. This guy made ABA as it's used on autistics, and, well, I'll let his words speak for himself:

Lovaas tells his assistant to start the film again. .John, the boy who hits himself; continues to struggle agains this doctor's embrace. "He loved to be put in restraints," Lovaas says with a big grin, which raises another round of questions from his class. What did he like about it? Were the restraints just another bad reinforcer? Lovaas seems to delight in the questions, his raucous laughter echoing through the large haIl. John liked the restraints, Lovaas explains, because he reaIly didn't like to hit himself. Who would? "He just wanted some attention," says Lovaas. "Like aIl of us."

"You see, you start pretty much from scratch when you work with an autistic child. You have a person in the physical sense—they have hair, a nose and a mouth—but they are not people in the psychological sense. One way to look at the job of helping autistic kids is to see it as a matter of constructing a person. You have the raw materials, but you have to build the person."—Ivar Lovaas, 1974

"[T]hey need to be taught virtually everything, and the teaching needs to proceed in minute increments instead of major steps. Thus, at the beginning of treatment, the individuals may be regarded as being close to a tabula rasa. In this sense, they can be considered very young or recently born, as persons with little or no experience."—Ivar Lovaas, 2002

He has so much invested in his theories that he has invented a term for an Autistic learning without ABA/IBI. It cannot be learning, since there is no ABA/IBI. It is "generative self-stimulatory behaviour". Since it is not learning, and only present in Autistics(Autistics cannot learn naturally, any learning naturally must therefore not be learning, but exhibiting this behavior), it must be suppressed. Then they can learn normally.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Oh, that sounds a lot like how the Clark Institute in Toronto treats transexuals, except that they can't physically abuse adults, just expose them to random murder on the streets. Curiously, Madigan specialized heavily in Neuropsychiatry and was named after "The father of Army Neuropsychiatry", and Lovass was at UCLA's neuropsychiatry branch.. Do you know if he was a neurologist? I can't find any accurate biography of the bastard on the 'net.

[PainRack]

If I had to guess, I imagine somebody saw the similarities between heavy metal poisoning and autism, and saw that a lot of vaccines had thimerosal as a preservative, and that thimerosal had mercury in it. Ergo, vaccines cause autism.

A pediatriction released a paper saying that there is a correlation between vaccination and autism, suggests its mercury based in the 80s IIRC.

The paper been rejected since, and beside, said preservative is no longer being used.

[SirNitram]

Oh, that sounds a lot like how the Clark Institute in Toronto treats transexuals, except that they can't physically abuse adults, just expose them to random murder on the streets. Curiously, Madigan specialized heavily in Neuropsychiatry and was named after "The father of Army Neuropsychiatry", and Lovass was at UCLA's neuropsychiatry branch.. Do you know if he was a neurologist? I can't find any accurate biography of the bastard on the 'net.

I'm afraid I don't. He's simply consistantly referred to as a Clinical Psychologist with no further explanation.

[Broomstick]

Ironically, I think two very successful vaccines also played into the anti-vaccine movement.

The first is smallpox. Now, we all agree that the smallpox vaccine was ENORMOUSLY successful. It completely eradicated one of the great scourges of mankind (let's just hope what's left of the virus is never resurrected!). The vaccine is, however, not only the oldest but one of the most primitive. The rate of side effects was always high, but for most of the time it was used this seen as a fair trade-off because the disease it protected against was so very much worse. Make no mistake about it, though, complications from the smallpox vaccine could be deadly, and it could be a horrible, agonizing death. At best, you were left with a permanent, dime-sized scar - what other vaccine inevitably leaves the recipient scarred for life?

By the early 1970's the US stopped vaccinating people routinely because it was deemed too dangerous - more people in the US were dying from the vaccine than were even contracting smallpox worldwide. The vaccine was reserved for outbreaks only by the mid-70's

In the US (not sure about elsewhere) a weakened but live version of the polio virus used to be the preferred vaccine. Once in awhile the virus became reinvigorated and caused polio instead of preventing it. By the mid 1970's the few people in the US who were catching polio were getting from bad vaccine, not "wild" virus. I don't know if they're still using live-but-weakened vaccine or not, but a strong argument was made for discontinuing it as it was arguably causing more harm than good.

So, you have two instances where highly successful vaccines were so successful that at least one was discontinued for causing damage to recipients. I suspect that, this, too, is a factor for anti-vaccine nuts my age and 5-10 years younger, as they would have some memory/perception of "vaccines can be hazardous". As an example, I've met a few people in my age range who have had polio, and all of them caught it from the vaccine.

Some of us, of course, are intelligent enough to realize that vaccinations are still necessary (I just went through a bunch of bullshit to renew my tetanus booster, and paid for it out of pocket, and Marina has already spoken of her efforts to get up to date). My sisters who have kids also were quite gonzo on vaccinating them. If I recall, my niece had legitimate medical issues that delayed hers but her mom got her caught up as soon as possible despite there memories of vaccines being discontinued and bad outcomes.

The truth is that vaccines are safer today than they've ever been. Aside from legit medical problems (identification of which is part of what makes administering - or choosing not to - vaccines much safer than in the past), children should be vaccinated and adults should get appropriate boosters. End of story.

[sketerpot]

Offhand, I'd say it's because the polio vaccine was so successful at eradicating it, that these idiots can't appreciate just how shitty the disease made your life.

I know a guy who was crippled by polio back in the old days. The anti-vaccinationists are like the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal: too daft to care what monstrous things they're doing. (Pity you can't escape them with just a towel. )

[Twoyboy]

Aren't the claims about vaccines causing autism bullshit anyway?

Correct. Neither strict scientific tests nor lax legal methods support the claim.

What I want to know is where in the fucking hell this idea came from. There's not even a significant correlation, so why would people buy it in significant numbers?

On top of the reasons listed, another one I've heard is that the symptoms of autism tend to show up around the same time as one of the MMR vaccines is given. When you counter by saying the symptoms show up around the same time in unvaccinated autistic people, they tend to change the subject.