Multiculturalism in Canada

bozazz · Post by **bozazz** » 2008-09-02 11:21pm

I suppose the question that I have that I need to address in his new post. Is how does immigration and multiculturalism relate.

I also don't think I am misrepresenting his words because his overall tone is racist sans the fact that he has a wife that is a visible minority. I would think that moving to a country and adapting to their culture is retard as Darth Wong has said...it's a monoculture.

As for the use of "happy holidays" instead of "merry christmas" I'm not sure how to address it as I didn't quite understand what you meant Darth Wong.

Anyways is anyone thinking he's right and I'm wrong because I don't seem to be able to win.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2008-09-02 11:50pm

bozazz wrote:
Also it depends on where you're moving Zeon. If you make western Canada your new home French isn't that important out here. I rarely hear people speak it.

I'm moving to Montreal. Granted, that is personal choice; I could probably find a job just as easily in Toronto, but I simply fell in love with Montreal and the city seems well-positioned to survive Peak Oil, being densely packed with a good transit system and lots of "inefficient" farms in the province that will actually continue to function, unlike western megafarms.

Also, I consider it a respectful thing to do, to learn both languages in the country you're moving to. If I were ever to join the Canadian forces in the future, also, which I would be eligible to do as a Canadian citizen (unlike in the United States), they want their officer corps to be bilingual. Finally, being at least moderately proficient in the second of the two national languages nets you an additional 8% (67% required to immigrate) on the point system Canada uses for immigration.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-09-03 01:15am

I have not said that immigration diminishes canadian culture! I have said that multiculturalism diminishes Canadian culture. Those are two separate arguements. Read the posts and be aware of what you have rea before hitting the keyboard.

Hair-splitting sophistry. Multiculturalism is an inevitable side-effect of immigration unless laws are specifically written to outlaw non-conformist behaviour. Does he seriously think that's a good idea? Outlawing any behaviour that doesn't fit his preconceived notions of "culture"?

He wants to have his cake and eat it too, by peddling ideas without taking responsibility for the inevitable side-effects of those ideas.

Metatwaddle · Post by **Metatwaddle** » 2008-09-03 01:22am

"Utter garbage. My own wife is an immigrant and a visible minority. I respect her culture and welcome people from her country to Canada. I simply feel that, Canada should not have to adapt to them. If I were to move to her country I would adapt to it rather than expecting them to adapt to me. Given that our children will not be white, why would I want my own children to grow up in a society that excludes non-whites?"

Ah, the old "Some of my best friends are..." shtick. I'd say he needs to give some specifics here. How exactly has he been forced to adapt to the culture of minorities? It's one thing when you are encouraged to go from something exclusively "Canadian" (or Christian, white, Anglo-Saxon, whatever) to going to something universal (like "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"). It's another thing entirely if he is forced to say "Happy Hanukkah" or "Happy Ramadan" instead of "Merry Christmas". I suspect his experiences are entirely of the former variety, which really does no harm to anyone.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-09-03 01:29am

The next time someone brings up the "I know a black/woman/gay/whatever who agrees with me" argument, ask him to look up Mary Ward, Eliza Lynn Linton, and Margaret Jersey*. There are plenty of historical precedents for people holding outlandishly bigoted ideas that actually penalized their own demographic subgroups.

*All three women were influential figures in the womens' anti-suffrage movement of the early 20th century.

bozazz · Post by **bozazz** » 2008-09-03 01:59am

Darth Wong wrote:
I have not said that immigration diminishes canadian culture! I have said that multiculturalism diminishes Canadian culture. Those are two separate arguements. Read the posts and be aware of what you have rea before hitting the keyboard.
Hair-splitting sophistry. Multiculturalism is an inevitable side-effect of immigration unless laws are specifically written to outlaw non-conformist behaviour. Does he seriously think that's a good idea? Outlawing any behaviour that doesn't fit his preconceived notions of "culture"?

He wants to have his cake and eat it too, by peddling ideas without taking responsibility for the inevitable side-effects of those ideas.

Oddly enough he does believe this. I used my own logic, arguments made by people in this thread but he just doesn't budge. It's like moving a mountain. Sometimes I wonder what's the point of logic if it doesn't even persuade these people.

Metatwaddle · Post by **Metatwaddle** » 2008-09-03 02:28am

Darth Wong wrote:The next time someone brings up the "I know a black/woman/gay/whatever who agrees with me" argument, ask him to look up Mary Ward, Eliza Lynn Linton, and Margaret Jersey*. There are plenty of historical precedents for people holding outlandishly bigoted ideas that actually penalized their own demographic subgroups.

*All three women were influential figures in the womens' anti-suffrage movement of the early 20th century.

Yeah, or the Concerned Women for America (which is run by the wife of one of the two Left Behind authors). You could probably make a case for SCOTUS Justice Clarence Thomas too, but that would be a long tangent that I wouldn't recommend getting into. Besides, it requires quite a bit of knowledge of American constitutional law that may not be familiar to Canadians.

mr friendly guy · Post by **mr friendly guy** » 2008-09-03 05:00am

bozazz wrote:what's black and white fallacy mr friendly guy? I don't think it was in the FAQ and I've never come across it on the board.

Its basically when you assume it must be one or the other.

In this case his reasoning is like this
a) canada being great is either due to FREEDOM or multiculturalism.
b) freedom makes canada great
c) therefore (not stated but implied) multiculturalism doesn't contribute to Canada's greatness.

The fact that Canada is great because of other factors or a combination of both freedom and multiculturalism eludes his line of thinking. The classic example of black / white thinking is
a) you are either with us or against us (George Bush I am looking at you)

bozazz wrote: John Howard sounds like a great guy. It's no wonder closet racists like the one I've been battling love him so much. It's not the fact that he's racist that bothers me. It's that he won't admit that he's racist. If he was like the posters on Stormfront that I'd be ok and I wouldn't even go into such lengths as to debate him. At least with those people I know who I'm dealing with.

Funny thing is, I have run into Howard fan boys on youtube, who post replies on videos which are clearly anti-Howard. Since they made pathetic attempts to address my points, I manage to get them to shut up by attacking them (after they inevitably start using the you're unpatriotic line)

bozazz wrote: On a side note - is the series Lei Hen Jian good? Do you know if the movie Ying Xiong Wu Lei is good as well? I got curious since I've heard of the actor but not the movie or the TV series. I just finished kung fu hustle, blood & bones and Daai Cheung Gam in that order so I've got the asian movies jitters. I couldn't find any good reviews on Lei Hen Jian and the movie one seem to be rated a bit low.

I will PM you so we don't divert the thread about my choice of avatars.