ARH-70 Dies

[Crayz9000]

Somebody, please explain again to me why more management can solve anything?

[Ma Deuce]

*snip*

It seems to me the real problem is more the Pentagon's fucked-up procurement process than any fault of the contractors themselves. If that is the case, how is giving government contracts to foreigners (which I'm tempted to call "sending good money after bad" in and of itself) going to solve anything?

Somebody, please explain again to me why more management can solve anything

Because McNamara said so! You dare contradict the man the Martyr President chose to be SecDef?

[Ryan Thunder]

[quote="Stuart Mackey]<snip>[/quote]

So let me make sure I understand this; The US spends too much money on the military. Therefore, they should buy the Eurocopter, because its already built.

But, it doesn't do what they need it to do.

By your logic, if I couldn't find a wrench at the hardware store to tighten bolts with, I should go buy a screwdriver instead.

[Ekiqa]

[

His logic is that you can't find a metric wrench, so you buy an imperial one instead. Useable, but not perfect.

[Ryan Thunder]

Whoops, my bad. It does what they want it to do for the same price, but it doesn't do it as well.

So, not as fucked up as I originally, thought. But it's still not great, either.

If you want them to get the Tiger, you have to remember that the unit cost will have to include the money they already spent developing a home-grown version. I imagine this would boost the unit price considerably enough that, when you consider that the ARH-70's superior performance, its actually worth it to finish it off and put it into production.

US military hardware should be developed and manufactured in the CONUS, if they know what's good for them, anyways.

[Sidewinder]

The pro-Eurocopter crowd keeps forgetting the experiences of nations who were fucked in the ass by US arms manufacturers because the US government didn't like theirs. Iran had 79 F-14s, but because the Islamic Republic of Iran hated the US, Grumman didn't provide parts and tools necessary for maintenance, and by the end of the Iran-Iraq War, only 15 birds remained fully functional. Venezuela had 24 F-16s, but because Hugo Chavez began bitching about Bush, the US government stopped Elbit of Israel from upgrading those F-16s (I'm assuming the government also stopped Lockheed Martin from providing parts and tools necessary for maintenance), and those birds are now paperweights.

Now suppose Eurocopter sells Tigers to the US Army as an OH-58D replacement, and then President... maybe McCain... starts bitching about the French President (again). Will the French government say, "Fuck you too, McCain!" and order Eurocopter to stop training American pilots and maintenance crews, stop providing parts and tools necessary for maintenance, stop breaking ground on the factory that's supposed to assemble Tigers somewhere in the US? Can the US take that risk?

[Sea Skimmer]

God.. why are people still talking about Eurocoper… as I pointed out the very first time I now regret even bringing it up, it cost as much as RAH-66… four times what the US is now willing to spend for the role. Everything else doesn’t even begin to matter because the US ALREADY spent all that extra money upgrading and buying other helicopters. So if we bought Eurocopter that would mean instead of getting the 380 scout choppers we need, we’d get about 95, which is a totally pointless number that would come at an even more inflated cost to buy and operate.

[weemadando]

But Australia bought it! And is now refitting it with a second engine, because it didn't meet our original purchase specs, what with being single engine and all. I wonder how well the Australian aerospace industry will cope with adding a second engine to that thing while keeping it all functional.

[Beowulf]

"This imperial ratchet costs too much, we'll get a open end wrench instead."

"You should get this metric ratchet instead of that open end wrench. Sure, it costs just as much as the imperial one you decided not to buy, and it doesn't actually fit..."

"Are you stupid?"

[LordJack]

Sidewinder,

Well, your close. However, the US would never and doesn't have to have anyone else train it's pilots. Fort Rucker trains all of the helicopter pilots in the US, and in fact trains a lot of our allies as well. I've served in the Army for 8 years and trying to become a pilot now, and the thing I've noticed is that many Army schools except other branches and other nations. The US military trains many foreigners.

I also agree, forget the Eurocopter. For the first thing, the ARH-70 isn't dead, that's a terrible title. The contract for the ARH-70 has been cancelled. Now the Pentagon has to go back to Phase 1. That means they ask for bids for the next helicopter. That means that Bell can redo their budget, figure out a new price, and resubmit the ARH-70 for the next Open Bidding.

Currently Bell is fighting against Boeing. Boeing will be submitting the AH-6, the same helicopter that has been used by the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment for over 30 years. The 160th is an Army helicopter unit that flies solely for Army Rangers, SOCOM (Army Special Forces/Navy Seals/Air Force PJs and Air com controllers), CIA, and others.

Hopefully, the pentagon will go with the AH-6 since it can fly over a hundred more miles, and it's faster and more agile than the ARH-70. The negatives about that helicopter is that any passengers it takes will be exposed to the elements since they have to sit on benches outside of the helicopter. It only seats 4 people in the back with the external benches, as opposed to the Arapaho which held 6 inside.

I think they might not have picked it because it might not be as battle ready as the ARH-70. The 160th mostly flies at night reducing their potential to be shot, the rest of the Army has to fly 24/7, so they needed something that would stand up in a fight.

I found this Army site that has information.

http://usacac.army.mil/BLOG/blogs/cgsc_ ... entmessage