car bomb at univeristy in Spain

[dragon]

Just broke on CNN.

MADRID, Spain (CNN) -- A car bomb exploded Thursday in an open-air parking lot at the University of Navarra in Pamplona, Spain, injuring four people, authorities told CNN+, a CNN-affiliated Spanish television network.


Spanish police say this arms cache was seized in Pamplona Tuesday, just two days before Thursday's blast.

The car was parked in a lot near the library of the university.

The blast affected the campus' Central Building where about 400 students and staff were at the time of the blast, university spokesman Jesus Diaz told CNN+.

The Central Building has been shut down, but the rest of the campus is open, Diaz said.

Thursday's blast came just days after Spanish police arrested four suspected members of the Basque separatist group ETA early Tuesday. Authorities accused them of forming a terrorist cell that was ready to attack, the Spanish Interior Ministry said in a statement. Watch the latest on Pamplona car bomb »

CNN+ reported that the four injuries were not serious. So far there has been no claim of responsibility for the attack and there was no warning call before the blast.

Three of the suspects were arrested in or near the city of Pamplona, in Spain's northern Navarra region, which has Basque roots and was to be the base for the alleged cell, the statement said.

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The fourth suspect was arrested in the city of Valencia, on Spain eastern coast.

Police seized two revolvers and ammunition; various timers that might be used for bombs; detonating cord; items that might be used to make a bomb attached to the underside of vehicles; various substances that might be used to make explosives; and computer documentation, the ministry said.


All four suspects -- three men and a woman -- were born in Pamplona and range in age from 26 to 29, the ministry said.

ETA is blamed for more than 800 killings in its four-decade-long fight for Basque independence. The European Union and the United States list ETA as a terrorist group

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[Sidewinder]

Whatever their grievances, I STRONGLY doubt it's in the Basques' best interests to use terror tactics, as they're likely to convince the Spanish public that certain liberties (freedom from unwarranted surveillance or searches, freedom of speech and press, freedom to assemble in protest of government policies) aren't worth the danger some bin Laden wannabe will abuse those liberties to commit crimes. Do they really think their struggle will become any easier if a fascist party comes to power by exploiting the fear they strike into the Spanish public's heart?

Before you decry the possibility of a George W. Bush MK4 coming to power in a democratic nation, remember the mass panic aroused immediately after 11SEP2001. If al-Qaida manages to pull off another successful attack and kill a large number of Americans on American soil, do you think the American public will still shout, "End the war!" or will they shout, "Kill those [insert racial slur here]! The Bible says, 'An eye for an eye,' so let's tear out every goddamn [insert racial slur here]'s balls and make them eat it!"? Do you think citizens of another nation will react any differently when a group whose members are extremely vulnerable to being labeled, "Them" in "Us versus Them" propaganda manage to kill large numbers of "Us" (members of the dominant group) on that group's homeland?

The Basques better brace themselves for some hate crimes, and for police officers saying, "You asked for it," when reporting those hate crimes. It's unfair, unjust, unethical, and downright immoral to treat minorities like that, but it's also human nature.

[Phantasee]

I'm not sure I understand where you pulled al Qaeda from, Sidewinder. In case you missed the end of the article, ETA has been at this for longer than Osama. And then you think Spain is populated by Americans?

I'm thoroughly confused.

[NoXion]

Yeah, ETA have been pulling this kind of shit for a while if I remember correctly, so the Spanish government has had plenty of time to use Basque terrorism as an excuse to infringe on civil liberties. Whether or not they have actually done so I can't say, perhaps one of our Spanish members can enlighten me?

[Samuel]

I don't think it is Islamic terrorists- Spain pulled out of the Coalition of the Willing.Of course, I don't think that is what Sidewinder is saying. I think he just means a person copy catting the terrorists and is afraid that Spain will vear towards totalitarianism to control the threat.

However, I'm pretty sure that the Basque have been up to attacks like this for a while. I don't expect a sea change in Spanish politics.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/9271/

They have already killed 800 people. Injuring 4 more won't put them over the edge.

[Murazor]

I don't think it is Islamic terrorists.

I am certain that it was the Basques.

Chiefly, because they phoned the Basque Drivers Association to announce the impending detonation of a bomb at "the university" (though they forgot to identify which university was the target) and this is a fairly standard MO for the ETA motherfuckers. They aren't shy in the slightest about killing, but have been avoiding causing large numbers of civilian casualties since the late 90s.

[Sidewinder]

I don't think it is Islamic terrorists- Spain pulled out of the Coalition of the Willing.Of course, I don't think that is what Sidewinder is saying. I think he just means a person copy catting the terrorists and is afraid that Spain will vear towards totalitarianism to control the threat.

Exactly. Although seems unlikely Spain will go fascist again, who knows what the Spanish will do if the Basques push them hard enough? (Here's a hint: there are 2,304,000 Basques living in Spain, compared to the nation's total population of 45,200,737, or 89%. Does going to war against people who outnumber you 22 to 1 sound like a good idea? People responsible for the "Spanish Inquisition," a term many others now associate with torture, mutilation, and mass murder?)

[Sea Skimmer]

Whatever their grievances, I STRONGLY doubt it's in the Basques' best interests to use terror tactics, as they're likely to convince the Spanish public that certain liberties (freedom from unwarranted surveillance or searches, freedom of speech and press, freedom to assemble in protest of government policies) aren't worth the danger some bin Laden wannabe will abuse those liberties to commit crimes. Do they really think their struggle will become any easier if a fascist party comes to power by exploiting the fear they strike into the Spanish public's heart?

Actually that’s supposed to be half the point of terrorism. Force the government into repressive action against its own citizens, which then is supposed to eventually build up such discontent among them that the government falls. This is supposed to be easier to pull off then collapsing the government or its positions by directly attacking the population on such a scale as to cause true terror, people demanding an end to the violence at any price.

This strategy has almost worked a few times, I can't think it ever did work outright, not sure, but then terrorists usually aren’t in a very viable starting position to begin with, so ANY course of action they take is generally just be ultimately hopeless. If terrorists do have a viable position, they’ll usually quickly transition into an armed rebellion/civil war kind of scenario. Course that might prove just as futile, but at least when you put armed men on the streets you can just start to look like a credible power. People might even think about negotiating with you if you can keep it up. They’ll never negotiate with someone who can only manage bomb plantings and small scale shooting incidents.

[Adrian Laguna]

Although seems unlikely Spain will go fascist again, who knows what the Spanish will do if the Basques push them hard enough? (Here's a hint: there are 2,304,000 Basques living in Spain, compared to the nation's total population of 45,200,737, or 89%. Does going to war against people who outnumber you 22 to 1 sound like a good idea?

That's assuming all the Basques would be behind the rebellion. Reality the majority of the Basque people don't give a shit, they would rather the ETA disband and STFU.

[cosmicalstorm]

I remember Gary Brecher reffering to ETA as "Boutique Terrorism", i.e. kill a few people, blow up some bombs with plenty of advance warning. They arent trying to change anything, they're just attentionwhoring.

[Oskuro]

People responsible for the "Spanish Inquisition," a term many others now associate with torture, mutilation, and mass murder?

What the fuck? Are you sure about what you're implying here? Would you say that Germans are dangerous, and could fall back into a dictatorship because of the actions of the Nazi during WW2?


As for the subject at hand, ETA is not what it used to be. Their political branch gave up more than a decade ago, and the ones that remain are the zealots and career psychopaths, who perpetuate the organization by recruting amongst the violent and misguided. So it's hard to take them seriously as a "liberation group". To the general public, they are just a bunch of murderers.

Of course, political parties (mainly the right-wing Partido Popular) try to benefit from ETA's actions by resorting to fear-monguering and macho bullshit, wich of course resonates with the angered crowds, but, to be honest, most people around here don't feel ETA is a threat, mainly because they usually attack government facilities (Specially police or military), or assasinate cops, soldiers or politicians. And ETA has been so long at it, that many are just used to it.

So no, we won't be devolving to a dictatorship any time soon because of them (although some political parties would like to).

[Sidewinder]

What the fuck? Are you sure about what you're implying here? Would you say that Germans are dangerous, and could fall back into a dictatorship because of the actions of the Nazi during WW2?

Yes. To quote a great man,

Will the edge ever be used? It will. Man is not very far removed from his cave ancestor. And as battle was a primal pastime, so modern man engaged in it more readily retrogrades to his hairy progenitor.

Or as Yoda would say, "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hatred. Hatred leads to suffering." If terrorists terrorize people badly enough, the people's veneer of civility, decency, and democracy is going to give way to base and brutal instincts related to survival, i.e., "Eliminate any and all threats to MY LIFE. The human rights of the people who're threatening me? That's dead and buried so I won't be dead and buried until God calls, and God's not calling for the sake of the people who're threatening me."

[Samuel]

Sidewinder, the Basques terrorist organization don't have enough numbers or firepower to pull that off. It would be like the KKK or white supremacists posing a legitamate threat to the US government now a days.

As for the inquisiton... that was 500 years ago. That is like claiming my family would go Merc and loot a path of destruction through Michigan to Iowa because their ancestors did that 400 years ago.

The most repressive result is that the Spanish government declares all Basque organizations illegal and its members criminals and arrests those suspected of membership.

[Phantasee]

Do you not understand that ETA has been doing this for forty years? If that "veneer" hasn't come off yet, do you think it's going to come off after a half-assed car bombing?

Please stop assuming the Spanish are the same as Americans. They're clearly not, since they have had to put up with this seperatist-terrorist shit on their own soil for a generation longer than the US has had to deal with Islamic terrorism on it's soil.

[Oskuro]

The most repressive result is that the Spanish government declares all Basque organizations illegal and its members criminals and arrests those suspected of membership.

Wich is what usually happens. Organizations proven to have connections to ETA (particularly political organizations) are illegalized. Those whose connection can't be proven, but that refuse to condemn the attacks get a lot of flak too (usually, the Nationalist political parties refrain from condemnig the attacks, to avoid losing the votes of nationalists).

Of course, then ETA and their friends claim that they are being unjustly persecutted, and that it is an abuse of power, and yadda yadda yadda....