Op/Ed: Retroactive pay cuts to 2006

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
Ekiqa
Jedi Knight
Posts: 527
Joined: 2004-09-20 01:07pm
Location: Toronto/Halifax

Op/Ed: Retroactive pay cuts to 2006

Post by Ekiqa »

http://www.thestar.com/News/Insight/article/587488
What you missed in that budget bill
Thomas Walkom

Those worried about Stephen Harper changing his spots can rest easy. At heart, the prime minister's the same old guy. True, he now plans to run big deficits to fight the economic slump. But Harper is also using the opportunity provided by this slump to quietly ram through laws that punish two groups his governing Conservatives have long had in their sights – public sector workers and uppity women.

At the same time, he is quietly introducing measures to weaken environmental laws affecting rivers and lakes, limit federal oversight of most foreign investment and scale back some of Canada's few remaining restrictions on foreign ownership.

All are part of the government's so-called budget implementation Bill C-10. Most were mentioned barely, if at all, in the Jan. 27 budget that gave rise to this bill.

Still, thanks to Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff, every one is bound to pass. Ignatieff has pledged that his caucus will support the budget and any bills flowing from it.

Overall, Bill C-10 provides an insight into how a sly government can use the economic crisis to quietly slip through measures that have little or nothing to do with the problem at hand.

In this case, the Conservative attack on pay equity – the idea that men and women should be paid equally for work of equal value – provides the most telling example. Bill C-10 would end the right of federal civil servants to take pay equity complaints to the federal human rights commission. Instead, such issues would have to be dealt with as part of the normal bargaining process between union and management.

And in determining whether wage rates for men and women were fair, any arbitrator would have to take "market forces" into account.

The problem with this is twofold. First, as a federal task force wrote five years ago, collective bargaining involves tradeoffs. But a woman's constitutionally protected right to be paid fairly is hardly something that should be traded away for an extra coffee break.

Equally important is the reference to market forces. Toronto lawyer Mary Cornish points out that pay equity was designed specifically to rectify a failure in the market that permitted systemic wage discrimination against women. To turn around and subordinate equity to this same market is to negate the entire exercise.

She notes that when former Ontario premier Mike Harris made a similar attack on provincial pay equity, the courts slapped him down.

Women aren't the only target of the Liberal-Conservative budget bill. Federal government workers of both sexes face measures that would cap wage increases for the next two years at 1.5 per cent annually. That in itself may mean little. In hard times, it's hard for any union to negotiate big pay raises.

But to add injury to insult, the caps are retroactive to 2006
. According to the Public Service Alliance of Canada, that means some workers face wage rollbacks. Jail guards are already threatening a court challenge.

Harper is also using Bill C-10 to quietly legislate other measures on his agenda that have little or nothing to do with the economic crisis, such as:

Raising the threshold for government review of foreign takeovers from $295 million to $1 billion. The bill would also give the government new powers to refuse any foreign takeover on the grounds of "national security" (a measure prompted by recent Chinese attempts to buy Canadian resource firms).

Raising the ceiling on foreign ownership of domestic airlines such as Air Canada from 25 to 49 per cent. The Liberals used to decry this as selling out the national interest. However, in their latter years in government, and under pressure from Air Canada, they suggested something similar.

Amending the Navigable Waters Protection Act to let the cabinet exempt certain kinds of rivers and lakes from regulations that limit damming or dumping. Quebec New Democrat MP Thomas Mulcair, that party's deputy leader, argues that this is a part of a broader plan to weaken environmental rules. And it's true that, as the Star reported last month, Transport Minister John Baird has publicly mused about cutting back the scope of environmental assessment laws, saying they create too much red tape.

All told, it's a modestly ideological agenda for a government that's supposed to have been forced into centre ground. But it seems that Stephen Harper is still Stephen Harper. And, thanks largely to the helpful support of Ignatieff's Liberals, he can get away with it.
So, if you're a woman, tough luck trying to get equal pay anymore.

If, over the past 3 years, you received a wage increase of greater than 1.5% per year, you will now OWE the government money.

They are making it easier for foreign take overs of Canadian companies, though they have let so man be sold that there is almost nothing left.

Also, they are eliminating restrictions on some waterways to allow for easier dumping, most likely for the Oil Sands.

And Iggy-poo is entirely pleased with this.
User avatar
Starglider
Miles Dyson
Posts: 8709
Joined: 2007-04-05 09:44pm
Location: Isle of Dogs
Contact:

Re: Op/Ed: Retroactive pay cuts to 2006

Post by Starglider »

Ekiqa wrote:Toronto lawyer Mary Cornish points out that pay equity was designed specifically to rectify a failure in the market that permitted systemic wage discrimination against women. To turn around and subordinate equity to this same market is to negate the entire exercise.
Unfortunately this isn't a case of market failure, at least not in the sense of the market being irrational. Female pay is lower on average, for any given position, because;
1) Women don't push for raises as aggressively as men.
2) Women are much more likely to take a long period of (maternity) leave, possibly leaving altogether.

Equal pay should be legislated, but feminists must realise that this creates an incentive not to hire women. Particularly for a small company hiring choices are absolutely critical, and being female (and of childbearing age) is essentially a '-20 points might need maternity leave' in the mind of whoever is doing the hiring. Since smaller businesses are essentially exempt from quota-based equal hiring laws, the only way to fix this is for the government to provide sufficiently generous compensation to the employer when a woman takes maternity leave to remove it as a downside.

That said even while this discrepancy still exists in the private sector there is no reason for the government to pay attention to it, so yes this legislation appears to be a fairly evil attempt to save a small amount of cash by re-relegalising discrimination.
User avatar
Wicked Pilot
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 8972
Joined: 2002-07-05 05:45pm

Re: Op/Ed: Retroactive pay cuts to 2006

Post by Wicked Pilot »

If you succeed from Canada and join the U.S. Obama can be your new president. Ontario and Nova Scotia would be good additions to the states.
The most basic assumption about the world is that it does not contradict itself.
User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20813
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Op/Ed: Retroactive pay cuts to 2006

Post by K. A. Pital »

Market failure doesn't mean the market is irrational. The market is rational, but people suffer. That's a failure.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali
User avatar
Hawkwings
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3372
Joined: 2005-01-28 09:30pm
Location: USC, LA, CA

Re: Op/Ed: Retroactive pay cuts to 2006

Post by Hawkwings »

Wicked Pilot wrote:If you succeed from Canada and join the U.S. Obama can be your new president. Ontario and Nova Scotia would be good additions to the states.
secede, WP.

I would think US conservatives would compare this to what Obama's done with the bailout bill... except for the fact that this is more towards their liking, and the fact that it's in Canada, and who pays attention anyways?

Also, how the hell can retroactive pay cuts be legal?
Vendetta wrote:Richard Gatling was a pioneer in US national healthcare. On discovering that most soldiers during the American Civil War were dying of disease rather than gunshots, he turned his mind to, rather than providing better sanitary conditions and medical care for troops, creating a machine to make sure they got shot faster.
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Op/Ed: Retroactive pay cuts to 2006

Post by Darth Wong »

Hawkwings wrote:I would think US conservatives would compare this to what Obama's done with the bailout bill... except for the fact that this is more towards their liking, and the fact that it's in Canada, and who pays attention anyways?
These aren't positive changes in many respects, but they're also not large changes. Also, the biggest complaints are drawn by changes which only affect federal government employees, not the entire citizenry. Given the ridiculous compensation and job security these people are drawing compared to most of the population, it's hard to shed a tear.
Also, how the hell can retroactive pay cuts be legal?
It's happened in the private sector. Ask anybody in the auto sector about Lear's clawbacks. Those were much worse than rollbacks to previous wage levels; they were TRULY retroactive, ie- they asked for the money back. Mind you, that didn't make the news because it wasn't a bunch of spoiled public-sector unions hurting from it.

The article uses some misleading language. It's not a retroactive pay cut; it's a rollback to previous wage levels, canceling out some of the wage increases that happened since 2006 by capping year-over-year raises retroactively.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Aaron
Blackpowder Man
Posts: 12031
Joined: 2004-01-28 11:02pm
Location: British Columbian ExPat

Re: Op/Ed: Retroactive pay cuts to 2006

Post by Aaron »

It's not like we didn't see this coming, anyone who was around in the late 80's-early 90's should remember the wage freezes in various public sectors and I'm sure that the next federal budget will include a freeze on VA/CPP pensions if it doesn't already.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
Image
Ekiqa
Jedi Knight
Posts: 527
Joined: 2004-09-20 01:07pm
Location: Toronto/Halifax

Re: Op/Ed: Retroactive pay cuts to 2006

Post by Ekiqa »

Darth Wong wrote:The article uses some misleading language. It's not a retroactive pay cut; it's a rollback to previous wage levels, canceling out some of the wage increases that happened since 2006 by capping year-over-year raises retroactively.
It IS a pay cut, since employee's will have their current salary reduced AND be forced to pay back money.

It's the Conservatives attacking their two favourite groups, government employees and women.

And "spoiled public-sector unions"?

How can public sector unions be spoiled whenever they try to negotiate in good faith, the government totally steamrollers then, legislating new salaries? The Federal Government NEVER starts to negotiate new contracts until the current ones have been expired for well over a year, usually three years.
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Op/Ed: Retroactive pay cuts to 2006

Post by Darth Wong »

Public-sector unions do not negotiate in good faith. Ever.

They are monopolistic extortion cartels. That's how they do business; it is in fact their entire business model.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Jalinth
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1577
Joined: 2004-01-09 05:51pm
Location: The Wet coast of Canada

Re: Op/Ed: Retroactive pay cuts to 2006

Post by Jalinth »

"Pay equity" as practiced by governments is a far cry from simply ensuring that all people with the same job and performance are paid equally (so no discounts because of your gender/race). A whole industry exists that tries to equate the "skill" of a program manager level 3, subset ABC with a materials engineer working for the Department of Defense who handles testing and specifications for new productions to an assistance controller working in Public Works. How you calculate up the points is very subjective and salaries tend to increase (or your skilled people will walk out after their own theoretical public sector "job security" discount
is exceeded). I have severe qualms about whether the second phase of pay equity was anything more than an university academia ideological exercise that had the misfortune of being implemented.

As far as cut backs, your choices are either layoffs or pay freezes/cuts. I'm not sure why government should be immune. My outfit has had both - fairly small cuts so far but across the board pay freezes and massive travel lockdown for everyone who doesn't bring in bucks or must fly (CEO and local presidents). Even here, they get to stay in ultra-luxurious Hilton Garden Inn as the high-point - mostly because it is so close to one of our offices that we get a big discount and fly economy.
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Op/Ed: Retroactive pay cuts to 2006

Post by Darth Wong »

I love the way public-sector union supporters are so accustomed to their terms and conditions that they think it's "steamrolling" for them to be treated the way private-sector employees are treated all the time. How many employers simply announce to their employees that there will be wage freezes or rollbacks or layoffs?

This is the gulf between private and public-sector employees right there: they're so fucking spoiled that they think the normal conditions of private-sector employment are an outrage when applied to them, and they're so fucking insulated that they can't understand why private-sector workers don't feel the same way.

What do they expect private-sector workers to say? "God damn the government for treating you like us?"
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
bobalot
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1733
Joined: 2008-05-21 06:42am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Op/Ed: Retroactive pay cuts to 2006

Post by bobalot »

Bloody hell, your mob makes our unions look like a bunch of pussies. Public teacher real wages over here have been in decline for 20 years. I know nurses wages haven't kept up over time (which is why there is starting to be serious shortages), real wages for university lecturers/staff have been in decline for decades, etc. The only public sector union that seem to get what they want is the Police Federation.

It wouldn't be so bad, if our politicians didn't take the time to give themselves a fucking pay rise every year while expecting everybody else to take a wage freeze during hard times.
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi

"Problem is, while the Germans have had many mea culpas and quite painfully dealt with their history, the South is still hellbent on painting themselves as the real victims. It gives them a special place in the history of assholes" - Covenant

"Over three million died fighting for the emperor, but when the war was over he pretended it was not his responsibility. What kind of man does that?'' - Saburo Sakai

Join SDN on Discord
User avatar
Surlethe
HATES GRADING
Posts: 12269
Joined: 2004-12-29 03:41pm

Re: Op/Ed: Retroactive pay cuts to 2006

Post by Surlethe »

Darth Wong wrote:Public-sector unions do not negotiate in good faith. Ever.

They are monopolistic extortion cartels. That's how they do business; it is in fact their entire business model.
That applies to all unions, not just public-sector ones. They're just like OPEC: out to make a profit through collective bargaining over the price of their product.
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
F. Douglass
Post Reply