Two U.S. judges admit to jailing children for money

[Kanastrous]

They should be treated as if they had kidnapped these people and locked them in a basement dungeon.

They should be treated more harshly than if they had merely done that. Sure, that's basically what they did, but they did it under color of authority.

[Darth Wong]

Ah, yes, the profit motive; the source of everything good according to the Right strikes again. I do wonder how common this sort of thing is.

Put away your broad brush, Bunky. Both judges were registered Democrats.

Scum is scum, and these two qualify. Good link to an article about a couple of scumbags, now get down off your soapbox.

Will you STOP using that fucking idiotic claim that Democrat = Leftist? It simply isn't true; the entire Democratic Party sits slightly to the right of the CONSERVATIVE Party here in Canada.

And I'm tired of Americans saying that it's true on their own political spectrum too. I've heard that many times but it occurred to me that you should know it's not true: you have Ralph Nader, so you know what a real leftist looks like.

[Count Chocula]

Will you STOP using that fucking idiotic claim that Democrat = Leftist? It simply isn't true; the entire Democratic Party sits slightly to the right of the CONSERVATIVE Party here in Canada.

American voters, as a whole, do NOT compare our political classifications with those of Canada or Europe. In American politics, Democrats are to the left of the Republican party. It's a binary set: Democrats on one side, Republicans on the other. Do you agree that Republicans are right wing? Left, Right.

Nitpick: I did NOT say "Leftist" - I said "Democrat."

[General Zod]

Will you STOP using that fucking idiotic claim that Democrat = Leftist? It simply isn't true; the entire Democratic Party sits slightly to the right of the CONSERVATIVE Party here in Canada.

American voters, as a whole, do NOT compare our political classifications with those of Canada or Europe. In American politics, Democrats are to the left of the Republican party. It's a binary set: Democrats on one side, Republicans on the other. Do you agree that Republicans are right wing? Left, Right.

Nitpick: I did NOT say "Leftist" - I said "Democrat."

Lord of the Abyss did say "Right" however, when you tried being clever by saying they were Democrats. He didn't say they were "Republican". The idea that parties are either right or left and don't have a spectrum within themselves is ludicrous.

[Count Chocula]

^ Now who's splitting hairs? Here's a rhetorical question: how many US (or Canadian, or whoever) readers of this board see the word "Right" WRT politics and NOT conclude Republicans?

Here's what I've seen in 6 months of posting....wait for it....Right=Republican. Left=Democrat.

[General Zod]

^ Now who's splitting hairs? Here's a rhetorical question: how many US (or Canadian, or whoever) readers of this board see the word "Right" WRT politics and NOT conclude Republicans?

Here's what I've seen in 6 months of posting....wait for it....Right=Republican. Left=Democrat.

Turns out Americans have an extremely narrow view of the political spectrum? Who knew.

Also, contrary to what Republican propaganda might tell you Democrats are far more centrist than left.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Put away your broad brush, Bunky. Both judges were registered Democrats.

Scum is scum, and these two qualify. Good link to an article about a couple of scumbags, now get down off your soapbox.

LotA was pointing out that this is the result of a sort of "free market" of the type envisioned by extreme-right libertarians, Chocula. The detention centers were privately run and received funding based on the number of children incarcerated, and therefor had an incentive to incarcerate as many as possible for as long as possible. In an unregulated free market, this is the result: the private companies pay off judges to incarcerate more children for longer periods of time, increasing profits.

The political registration of the "judges" (and I'm loath to use that word in this case) is irrelevant - it's still an example of right-wing economics in action.

To make it clear, that's exactly what I meant. Greed isn't partisan. However, holding up privatization as a Holy Grail IS a right wing viewpoint, which is why I referred to "the Right". Privatizing everything and holding the free market up as the solution for everything isn't a left wing obsession; it's a right wing one.

As for Party, Wong has it correct; we have the right wing Democrats, and the far right Republicans. And no left of significance at all.

[Count Chocula]

WRT the juveniles who were locked up longer than the state average: if it can be proven that these judges sent more kids away, for longer times, than other judges in their courthouse, the state of PA is in for a load of butthurt. It already looks like Ciavarella sent 2.5x the statewide average to jail - now there's a fucking statistical outlier for you!

The sharks will no doubt start a class-action lawsuit on behalf of every juvenile sent to jail by these two. Even if the sentences were within permissible guidelines, with such a large overage in sentencing, PA will probably end up paying a massive judgement to these kids - and their lawyers. And it'll be deserved.

[Elfdart]

They should be treated as if they had kidnapped these people and locked them in a basement dungeon.

They should be treated more harshly than if they had merely done that. Sure, that's basically what they did, but they did it under color of authority.

The feds could nail them to the wall for violating the kids' civil rights and kidnapping. Conspiracy, fraud, racketeering, extortion, bribery (the judges for receiving them, the jail for giving)... there are all kinds of things they could be clobbered with -and they should be.

[Count Chocula]

Holy shit, I agree with Elfdart! Not that it matters. LOTA, I am in complete agreement with you regarding privatization of fucking prisons - state-mandated punishment should be administered by state-run institutions. Privatizing jails - that's about as crazy as having a private "security" company like Halliburton handling military duties in some Middle East dustbowl.

Oh wait...

[Aratech]

Holy shit, I agree with Elfdart! Not that it matters. LOTA, I am in complete agreement with you regarding privatization of fucking prisons - state-mandated punishment should be administered by state-run institutions. Privatizing jails - that's about as crazy as having a private "security" company like Halliburton handling military duties in some Middle East dustbowl.

Oh wait...

Strange, I know. I feel kinda like I do over at SB.com whenever I find myself in agreement with Xort.

As for these judges, fuck 'em. Hit them with every civil and criminal charge you can. These are members of society that people are supposed to look to for guidance and proper enforcement of the law. A message, IMHO, needs to be sent that this kind of behavior will not be tolerated. The prison officials who were involved with this should receive similar punishments/fines/damages.

[weemadando]

Is there the potential for a RICO to be used against the corporations involved?

After all, they were involved in criminal activity for the perpetuation of their organisation.

[sketerpot]

By my calculations, these guys got about $1700 per wrongfully imprisoned child. Actually, I'm sure a lot of the bribe money was for closing down the county jail, so the bribe per child was probably more in the neighborhood of $1000. Those are some remarkably cheap judges.

[Elfdart]

Is there the potential for a RICO to be used against the corporations involved?

After all, they were involved in criminal activity for the perpetuation of their organisation.

I'd think so, but RICO is mostly about going after the assets of a criminal conspiracy. The laws against kidnapping, bribery and violations of civil rights are what could land these weasel-dicked assholes in prison, which is where they belong.

[Beowulf]

I'm not sure you could nail the judges or corporations involved with kidnapping. Violations of civil rights, bribery, conspiracy, etc, I can quite easily see. It's significantly harder to see kidnapping.

[Kanastrous]

Kidnapping as a flavor of False Imprisonment?

[Beowulf]

Kidnapping as a flavor of False Imprisonment?

Tough sell. False imprisonment requires that it be done without legal authority. The imprisonment appears to have been done legally (though wrongly). I'd use a real legal scholar's opinion if possible, but lacking one, this situation is similar to a prosecutor withholding exculpatory evidence in order to get a conviction.

[weemadando]

Is there the potential for a RICO to be used against the corporations involved?

After all, they were involved in criminal activity for the perpetuation of their organisation.

I'd think so, but RICO is mostly about going after the assets of a criminal conspiracy. The laws against kidnapping, bribery and violations of civil rights are what could land these weasel-dicked assholes in prison, which is where they belong.

That'd be just as good, destroying the companies and stripping their assets to pay for the education, college funds and therapy and probably the Hepatitis treatments for the kids involved.

[Elfdart]

Kidnapping as a flavor of False Imprisonment?

Tough sell. False imprisonment requires that it be done without legal authority. The imprisonment appears to have been done legally (though wrongly). I'd use a real legal scholar's opinion if possible, but lacking one, this situation is similar to a prosecutor withholding exculpatory evidence in order to get a conviction.

Legal authority goes right out the window once it's proved that the judges did what they did for the bribe money. It might be worth the effort to run separate trials (bribery first, then kidnapping) since kidnapping carries penalties up to and including life in prison, which I think would be an appropriate sentence for locking people up without due process -especially kids.

[Havok]

The thing with proving kidnapping, is that this could have just as easily been a couple or ridiculously super harsh judges. Could you say that no judge would use these lengths and extremes in punishment? If the defense found even one case in the country where a extreme punishment was handed out for a relatively moderate crime, it could screw the whole case.

[Elfdart]

One girl (Hillary Transue -see above) was sent to jail for something that isn't against the law: making fun of someone on MySpace. She had no business in court whatsoever, let alone being locked up. That's where a charge of kidnapping and violation of civil rights would kick in. It's a moot point since the judges copped pleas, but if I had my way, they'd have the book thrown at them.

[Havok]

I agree with your way as well. How did that girl even wind up in court for that now that you mention it? Wouldn't she have had to have been arrested?

[Cecelia5578]

Kidnapping as a flavor of False Imprisonment?

Tough sell. False imprisonment requires that it be done without legal authority. The imprisonment appears to have been done legally (though wrongly). I'd use a real legal scholar's opinion if possible, but lacking one, this situation is similar to a prosecutor withholding exculpatory evidence in order to get a conviction.

Kidnapping and false imprisonment are two different things-kidnapping is a crime, false imprisonment is a tort.