Prop. 8 arguments delivered before California Supreme Court

[The Vortex Empire]

I thought the job of a democratic government was to protect the minorities from the majority, so why is this in the hands of the voters again? Oh right, gays aren't people, so they don't share the same rights to marriage.

Stupid bigots.

[The Yosemite Bear]

yes, I know, I live here too, and am personally disgusted with the average CA voter, I remember public schools after prop 13, If it wouldn't get me on a sex offender's list, part of me would like to piss on that asshole's grave.

[Kitsune]

Will the numbers in the future you think towards being for Homosexual Marriage? If the legislature can get another amendment though, perhaps it can be voted down in the next election?

[Master of Ossus]

Will the numbers in the future you think towards being for Homosexual Marriage? If the legislature can get another amendment though, perhaps it can be voted down in the next election?

Certainly, in the future, voters will approve of gay marriage. I'd be surprised but not shocked if it passes in the next election, and I certainly think it'll get through in the next 5 years. Again, the only reason Prop 8 succeeded this time was because Gavin Newsome was such an asshole. Take Newsome out of the picture and Kerry probably beats Bush in 2004. Take Newsome out of the picture and Prop 8 CERTAINLY gets voted down by Californians.

[Kitsune]

Certainly, in the future, voters will approve of gay marriage. I'd be surprised but not shocked if it passes in the next election, and I certainly think it'll get through in the next 5 years. Again, the only reason Prop 8 succeeded this time was because Gavin Newsome was such an asshole. Take Newsome out of the picture and Kerry probably beats Bush in 2004. Take Newsome out of the picture and Prop 8 CERTAINLY gets voted down by Californians.

On another board, a bit back, there was the argument that due to the influence of Hispanic coming into the state that the acceptance of homosexuality is at a peak in California.

[Master of Ossus]

On another board, a bit back, there was the argument that due to the influence of Hispanic coming into the state that the acceptance of homosexuality is at a peak in California.

It's certainly possible that more Hispanic entry will decrease support for gays, but Hispanics were largely ambivalent towards Prop 8. The only group that voted significantly for Prop 8 was blacks, with Hispanics, Asians, and whites all voting within a few percent of 50.

[Kitsune]

It's certainly possible that more Hispanic entry will decrease support for gays, but Hispanics were largely ambivalent towards Prop 8. The only group that voted significantly for Prop 8 was blacks, with Hispanics, Asians, and whites all voting within a few percent of 50.

What is the breakdown of Black Leadership as far as gay marriage?
I know that both Coretta Scott King and Mildred Loving spoke in favor of Gay Marriage as civil rights.

[Master of Ossus]

What is the breakdown of Black Leadership as far as gay marriage?
I know that both Coretta Scott King and Mildred Loving spoke in favor of Gay Marriage as civil rights.

I have no idea about "Black Leadership." Exit polls showed 70% of black voters voted for Prop 8. Hispanics narrowly favored it (52-48), and Asians and whites slightly disfavored it (49-51 and 48-52, respectively).

[The Yosemite Bear]

Should we tell them that Billie Holiday had both male and female lovers? (Though all the men did tend to treat her like something the stepped in)

[born in shadow]

Snipped answer

Thank you for enlightening me...I just wish the answer was a little less depressing

-Aaron

[Pint0 Xtreme]

What is the breakdown of Black Leadership as far as gay marriage?
I know that both Coretta Scott King and Mildred Loving spoke in favor of Gay Marriage as civil rights.

I have no idea about "Black Leadership." Exit polls showed 70% of black voters voted for Prop 8. Hispanics narrowly favored it (52-48), and Asians and whites slightly disfavored it (49-51 and 48-52, respectively).

The exit polls for African American voters were off. Subsequent studies show roughly 60% of black voters voted for Prop 8.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

I have a question. Let's assume that Prop 8 will be upheld and that the existing marriages will remain valid, which is what I believe to be the most probable outcome. Is there any legal ground for the case to be appealed to a federal court on the basis that the existence of some same-sex marriage licenses and the existence of domestic partnerships violate the equal protection clause in the US Constitution?

[Master of Ossus]

The exit polls for African American voters were off. Subsequent studies show roughly 60% of black voters voted for Prop 8.

Source? Also, how does one run a subsequent study on anonymous votes?

I have a question. Let's assume that Prop 8 will be upheld and that the existing marriages will remain valid, which is what I believe to be the most probable outcome. Is there any legal ground for the case to be appealed to a federal court on the basis that the existence of some same-sex marriage licenses and the existence of domestic partnerships violate the equal protection clause in the US Constitution?

Not really. The protections granted to gays by the Equal Protection clause are very weak; the clause reserves its strongest protections for races and people of different national origins, with somewhat weaker protections being incorporated for sex. Few protections are granted to gays and the developmentally disabled. Even O'Connor only applies rational basis review for protecting the rights of gays, and she's by far the most radical member of the SCOTUS with that view.

[Terralthra]

Not really. The protections granted to gays by the Equal Protection clause are very weak; the clause reserves its strongest protections for races and people of different national origins, with somewhat weaker protections being incorporated for sex. Few protections are granted to gays and the developmentally disabled. Even O'Connor only applies rational basis review for protecting the rights of gays, and she's by far the most radical member of the SCOTUS with that view.

Ex-member, at that. The most progressive member of the current bench with respect to gay rights is probably Breyer.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

The exit polls for African American voters were off. Subsequent studies show roughly 60% of black voters voted for Prop 8.

Source? Also, how does one run a subsequent study on anonymous votes?

Here you go.

Prop. 8 Exit Polling of African-Americans Way Off, Experts Say

A new study on California’s Proposition 8 voting trends released Tuesday found that far fewer African-Americans voted to pass the gay marriage ban than the 70% suggested by exit polling and concluded that race was not the most significant factor affecting people’s vote for or against marriage equality.

After conducting in-depth analysis of election returns from five key California counties and using census data to estimate the racial makeup of the voters in those counties, researchers found that between 57% and 59% of African-Americans voted in favor of Proposition 8, which amended the state's constitution to prohibit same-sex marriage.

"This is a far cry from the [National Exit Poll] estimate,” said Kenneth Sherrill of Hunter College, one of the lead authors of the study.

Sherrill also noted that four pre-election polls put black support for the antigay ballot initiative anywhere between 41% and 58%. “While that’s quite a range, none venture above 58%,” he said. “On this basis alone, the NEP estimate of 70% would appear to be an outlier.”

A comparison of the Prop. 8 data with that of polling after the Knight Initiative, a 2000 measure that prohibited gay marriage in California by statute (rather than constitutional amendment), showed overall movement toward support of marriage equality across almost every demographic group “with the only holdouts being Republicans, conservatives, and those born before World War II,” said Patrick Egan of New York University, another lead author of the report. “Although Proposition 8 was victorious, I think the real story is that California voters have nevertheless shifted dramatically toward support for same-sex marriage.” In fact, the study found support for marriage equality increasing in nearly every demographic group by about one percent each year since 2000.

Egan and Sherrill also concluded that age, religiosity, party identification, and ideology had more of an effect on whether voters backed Prop. 8 than any other factors. For instance, the rate of support for the initiative among African Americans and whites was nearly the same for those who attended church services regularly.

Perhaps surprisingly, the study also revealed that partisanship and ideology trumped the fact of knowing someone who is openly LGBT. About two-thirds of the state’s self-identified conservatives knew someone who was gay and about 4 out of five of them voted for the measure – the same exact ratio of conservatives who voted for Prop. 8 but didn’t know an openly LGBT person. Republicans demonstrated a similar pattern, with about four out of five of them voting to pass the ban regardless of whether they knew anyone who was out or not.

“This leads us to the conclusion that at least in terms of marriage equality, opposition to our rights isn’t personal, it’s ideological and partisan,” Sherrill said. Though he called the resistance among Republicans and conservatives "implacable," Sherrill added, "Mitigating that opposition is the fact that California is becoming less Republican and less conservative. In fact, hard-core opposition to such things as gay marriage may be costing Republicans the support of younger voters." (Kerry Eleveld, Advocate.com)