Hmm. It seems to be like he believes many things that are anathema to the current republican party, but cannot express them. I also see why the GOP would want to get rid of him.I was kinda expecting hip-hop to be playing in here today.
Aw, sh—. It’s on my, uh, computer there. I haven’t pulled it up yet, but I’ll get a little bit goin’ in a second or two.
Who do you listen to?
I actually listen to a cross section, because I like to hear what the medium is saying, what the voice is.
But do you have a favorite?
P. Diddy I enjoy quite a bit.
Do you want to rethink that?
[laughs] I guess I’m sorta old-school that way. Remember, I came of age with the DJ and all this other stuff, so I’m also loving Grandmaster Flash, and that’s not hip-hop, but… Um, you know, I like Chuck D. And I always thought Snoop Dogg was—he just reminded me of the fellas back home. So I’ve always thoroughly enjoyed him.
Who else?
I like Sinatra. I like old-school. You know, Bing Crosby, Sinatra, Dean Martin. Love Dean Martin. He was one of these guys who just didn’t give an F. He just didn’t. Life was a party, and you either want to party or you don’t. But yeah, I like those. I’m a big Pack Rat. I love the Pack Rats from the 1950s—Dean Martin, Sammy Davis Jr., Frank Sinatra, those guys.
You mean the Rat Pack.
The Rat Pack, yeah.
Okay, so tell me about this hip-hop plan of yours.
Well, I have to admit, I’m rather amused. It was a conversation I had with a Washington Times reporter, and we were talking about the breadth and depth of the reach that I would try to bring to the party. And I told him, everybody’s in play. I want to reach everybody; I want to touch everybody. I think we have a very strong and powerful message to deliver. The urban community is a center for economic activity. It always has been, particularly in the black community. We are very much an entrepreneurial people, and I think the Republican message is one that speaks directly to that. It’s self-empowerment, it’s ownership, it’s opportunity. And hip-hop—I used hip-hop more as a symbolic term. I know some people started going a little nuts about “Oh, well, you know, they’re misogynists!” And some call them urban terrorists, which I think is an offensive term. But you know, they miss the point of what hip-hop is. Hip-hop is about economic empowerment. You’re talking about a generation of men from, you know, P. Diddy to Russell Simmons and the like who have created empire from their talent. Russell Simmons has empire. His reach is beyond hip-hop.
You’re not gonna convert Russell Simmons, though.
I’m not trying to convert anybody. If I wanted to convert somebody, I’d have kept my collar on, as a monk. What I’m trying to do is to inform. I have enough respect for people that they can make their own decisions. I just want to be in a situation where every time they’re not against me.
You made the comment at the convention about the sea of white faces. And you got a little bit of heat for that.
I sure did. And I looked at the people who gave me the heat and said, “What’s your problem? You tell me I’m wrong. Look at the room. Thirty-six black folks in the room? What, are you kidding me? Out of 4,000 people? Come on!”
Why do you think so few nonwhite Americans support the Republican Party right now?
’Cause we have offered them nothing! And the impression we’ve created is that we don’t give a damn about them or we just outright don’t like them. And that’s not a healthy thing for a political party. I think the way we’ve talked about immigration, the way we’ve talked about some of the issues that are important to African-Americans, like affirmative action… I mean, you know, having an absolute holier-than-thou attitude about something that’s important to a particular community doesn’t engender confidence in your leadership by that community—or consideration of you for office or other things—because you’ve already given off the vibe that you don’t care. What I’m trying to do now is to say we do give a damn.
But how are you going to change that perception?
You change it by force of personality, you change it by force of will, and sometimes you change it by force. [laughs]
Say what?
You go and you say, [pounding desk] “You will find tools that you will put in place, structures that will allow and embrace more diverse people to come to the party.” But this is the thing to keep in mind: Opening up the party, and making it more accessible, and making it more relevant, does not mean that I need to backslide on what I believe or what values we hold. We are a party; we are the conservative party of this country. We are a party that values life, born and unborn. We value hard work, individual rights, and liberties. We value the individual—to go out and carve out a dream for themselves. We value free-market and free-enterprise solutions. We value smaller government. We think the less government in your life, the better off you are as an individual and a family.
It’s a tough job for you right now, isn’t it?
It is, it is. I’m not gonna lie to you.
What’s been the hardest part?
Balancing so many competing interests. Balancing the House, the Senate, the base. I mean, everyone’s got something to say, and they’re saying it. [laughs]
How do you deal with the criticism?
I just pray on it.
You do?
Oh yeah. And I ask God, “Hey, let me show just a little bit of love, so I absolutely don’t go out and kick this person’s ass.”
Spoken like a true seminarian. Let’s talk about your background. You have a fascinating background. You were adopted—
Mm-hmm.
Tell me how it happened.
Well, from what I’ve been told, it’s really kind of a touching story. My mother, when we finally talked about it—it wasn’t until I was much older that she shared with me the story of my arriving in our home. And she said that she was unable to conceive children, and decided, you know, with her husband, that they wanted to have a family. So she went to Catholic charities here, St. Ann’s infant home in Maryland. And she said it was funny, she was walking through the nursery and she got to this one crib, and there was this baby there, and the baby stood up and reached out and said, “Mom.” And that was me.
How old would you have been?
Oh, 7, 8 months old.
And you said, “Mom”?
And reached for her. When she walked by, I reached for her. And even the nuns were, like, floored by that moment. It was very powerful when she told me that. I was a sobbing wreck when she told me that story.
And your father—
My dad—my adoptive father—he, unfortunately, was an alcoholic and a spousal abuser. He died when I was 4, from alcoholism.
Do you remember your father?
Yeah, I do. And I remember the fact that—and my mother confirmed—that he really did love me. I mean, he really cared. But he would take me out on dates when he would go with his girlfriends, or he would take me out to hang with his drinking buddies. It was kind of weird, but that was his way of being a father, I guess.
Did you ever see him hurt your mother?
Um, no. No, I never saw… But I do remember one time—and again, it was a moment when, I think this was the year he died, finding this puff of black lint in the hall. Well, it was her hair. I didn’t know it at the time, but he would pull… And I’m sitting there playing with it, and you know, I thought it was a dust ball or something. I didn’t know. But she never wanted me to think bad of him, no matter how bad he was to her.
There are similarities between your background and the president’s, don’t you think?
There are. And I think that’s—I guess that’s a historic note to make. I mean, I haven’t really thought about it that much. I just know that it was very difficult, you know? Life in a neighborhood where you couldn’t play here, you couldn’t shop there. Coming of age in the ’60s was a very challenging time. I was 10 when Dr. King was killed. I remember the day he was killed. We were on a bus, downtown D.C., heading home. And this guy jumped on the bus and yelled, “They just killed King.” The bus erupts. My mother’s in shock. And I’m lookin’ at her, saying, “Who’s King?” When we got home, turned the news on, and you’re watching the riots begin and all this unfold, and I just remember my mother being upset and asking her what was going on, and she put it in a context she thought I’d understand, which was “A friend of the family just died.” She is a very soft-spoken woman who has been a powerful witness to history through her own life, but then has provided me witness to that history as well, in what she taught me and what she shared and what she explained, you know: “Son, you may be successful, but remember, you’re still black.”
When Barack Obama gave the speech on race, did you agree with what he said?
I did. I mean, some of it. But my concern throughout this campaign was, people were treating him like he was going to be the Second Coming on the question of race. And because you have a black man as president doesn’t mean that tomorrow morning a black business is not gonna get redlined or a black family’s gonna be able to get their house. Those issues still exist. So the reality of it is, electing Barack does not necessarily change the underlying concerns and issues related to race. On one level it does, but I’m still a black man; when I walk in a room, you have attitudes about black folks. I can’t change that. And I’ve gotta deal with that reality regardless of my title. There are people in this country right now who would look at Barack Obama and still refer to him as “boy.” Period. That’s the reality of America. So my point is, just recognize that while the election is historic, while it is important, while it is transformative, it does not absolve us of having to deal day in and day out, in my life and your life, with the question of race.
Was it emotional for you when Barack was sworn in?
No.
Why not?
I don’t get caught up that way.
But didn’t you feel—
I felt… No, I felt pride. I felt excited about it. But, um, I don’t know, I have a different perception of this. I just…
Okay, tell me.
My perception is, there is right now, as we’re talking, there’s a black kid who just left a public-school system in which he’s using a ten-year-old book in a classroom that barely has lights, and he’s getting a poor education. And that bothers me. Right now there is a family that is dealing with an alcoholic, abusive parent or just got word that a relative has been killed in gun violence. Drug addiction, the AIDS infection rate, the poverty rate within my community is as significant today as it was in 1963. More so. The side of me that is very honored by what happened—and I am indeed honored by his election, because he and I are part of a small family, if you will, of black leaders who dared the system—still does not change the realities that we still must confront.
But don’t you think you both want the same thing for the kid with the old textbook?
I do. Absolutely. But I think the dance is gonna be on how you do it. You know? I philosophically believe, you know, that the individual has the greatest opportunity and power to change their fate. I’m less reliant on government to do for me than I am on myself and my network, my family, you know. It’s a different perspective.
You came from a very Democratic family, is that right?
Oh yeah. My parents were Roosevelt Democrats.
How did you become a Republican?
My mama raised me well.
No, really. What was it?
Ronald Reagan was a big influence. I was fascinated by what he had to say. He sounded a lot like how my mother raised me, back in that time. When my dad died, our church, our family, our friends, really put a lot of pressure on her to go on welfare, to get a government check.
And instead she worked in a laundry, didn’t she?
Sterling Laundry. As a presser. For forty-three, forty-four years. The most my mother ever made was $3.80 an hour. And I remember asking her why she never went on welfare, and she said, “I didn’t want the government raising my children.”
So you become a Republican. But you also decide, after graduating Johns Hopkins, to go into the priesthood? What a decision.
It’s a huge decision. And of course my friends were like, “You’re going to be a what?” You know, because I had a small reputation at Hopkins, you know—
As what?
I loved to party—still do—and have a good time.
Did you date a lot in college?
No, I didn’t. I had a lot of girl friends, and I loved—I love hanging out with women, sometimes more than men. You know, sit back and let your hair down type thing? So I knew what I was walking away from. And the one thing I always try to convey to young men and women who think about joining a religious order: Never look at it in terms of what you’re giving up, because you’re not giving up anything. You’re making a choice to live your life a certain way—celibate, poor, and obedient.
And you weren’t just flirting with this. You were there three years.
Yeah, I was. I got my habit, actually.
What were those three years like?
It was painful, it was joyful, it was, uh, challenging, it was calming. I mean, look, you’re making a radical shift in your life. And that’s why, you know, a lot of people, when they look at priests, what they don’t understand is, the man before you made a commitment long before the moment you see him. And in that journey a lot of things come and go that challenge him, that test him, that make it difficult to stay faithful, to stay true to his call. It’s a real hard thing. And you realize that as you’re sitting there in chapel and you’re praying. And then you go out into the world, and the world is looking at you, and you’re in full habit, and you’re working, you know, in the community, and a pretty young thing comes by… I mean, there are tests like that. And I appreciate those tests, I really do. Because it strengthens your vocation. It pushes you to think about whether or not this is the life I want. I remember, when I left the order, saying to my novice master that, you know, throughout the priesthood there are those who should be taking this step that I’m taking today. And sure enough—what, ten years later?—the scandals start breaking.
That had to be hard for you to watch.
It was very hard, because I knew there were men who should not have been there. These are individuals who were, you know—they used the priesthood as a place to go hide.
It’s a very safe closet, isn’t it?
Yeah, it’s a very safe closet to go to and hide who you really were, what you really felt. And the church paid a dear price for it.
Do you have a problem with gay priests who are celibate?
No, it’s your nature. It’s your nature. You can’t—I can’t deny you your nature.
Let’s talk about gay marriage. What’s your position?
Well, my position is, hey, look, I have been, um, supportive of a lot of my friends who are gay in some of the core things that they believe are important to them. You know, the ability to be able to share in the information of your partner, to have the ability to—particularly in times of crisis—to manage their affairs and to help them through that as others—you know, as family members or others—would be able to do. I just draw the line at the gay marriage. And that’s not antigay, no. Heck no! It’s just that, you know, from my faith tradition and upbringing, I believe that marriage—that institution, the sanctity of it—is reserved for a man and a woman. That’s just my view. And I’m not gonna jump up and down and beat people upside the head about it, and tell gays that they’re wrong for wanting to aspire to that, and all of that craziness. That’s why I believe that the states should have an opportunity to address that issue.
So you think it’s a state issue?
Absolutely. Just as a general principle, I don’t like mucking around with the Constitution. I’m sorry, I just don’t. I think, you know, in a pluralistic, dynamic society as the one that we have, every five years you can have a constitutional convention about something, you know? I don’t think we should be, you know, dancing around and trying to amend it every time I’ve got a social issue or a political issue or a business issue that I want to get addressed. Having said that, I think that the states are the best laboratory, the best place for those decisions to be made, because they will then reflect the majority of the community in which the issue is raised. And that’s exactly what a republic is all about.
Do you think homosexuality is a choice?
Oh, no. I don’t think I’ve ever really subscribed to that view, that you can turn it on and off like a water tap. Um, you know, I think that there’s a whole lot that goes into the makeup of an individual that, uh, you just can’t simply say, oh, like, “Tomorrow morning I’m gonna stop being gay.” It’s like saying, “Tomorrow morning I’m gonna stop being black.”
So your feeling would be that people are born one way or another.
I mean, I think that’s the prevailing view at this point, and I know that there’s some out there who think that you can absolutely make that choice. And maybe some people have. I don’t know, I can’t say. Until we can give a definitive answer one way or the other, I think we should respect that.
Despite all the hits you’ve taken, you sound pretty excited to be here.
I’ll tell you, it’s a real honor. It’s good. It’s good. It’s fun. It’s exciting. It’s an opportunity that, growing up here in D.C., I never thought I’d get. And now here I am. I mean, who’da thunk it in 1963 that in 2009 two black men would sit on top of the political world of this country? How friggin’ awesome is that? You cannot look at that and not go, “Wow.”
Have you had any dealings with Barack Obama?
Nooo. I tried, I tried. When he first came to Washington, I was two years into my term. At that time, I was the only African-American lieutenant governor in the country. And when Obama became senator, my office called his office several—no, more than several—times, to invite…for the two of us to sit down and get to know each other. I was gonna welcome him to my hometown, Washington, D.C. I figured, you know, take him out and get to know each other. And his office told my staff they didn’t see any need for the two of us to meet. So I’m like, “Oh-kay. All right. I don’t know what that’s all about, but that’s fine.”
And did you do that with everyone who was newly elected in the Senate?
No. I reached out to him brother to brother.
Brother to brother?
Yeah, you know: “There are only two of us, Barack, just you and me. You’re the senator, I’m the lieutenant governor.” ’Cause you didn’t have, you know, the black governors in New York and Massachusetts. It was just us. And I don’t know if it was a staff thing, I don’t know if it was a personal thing, I don’t know what it was. But we never got to meet. And then, when I ran for the senate [in 2006], he was the only African-American elected official in the country to come and campaign against me. Nobody else.
What do you make of all that?
I don’t know. One day I’d like him to explain it to me. Because it bothered me.
If he were to say, “Come over to the Oval Office, since I’m trying to be so bipartisan”—
I’d do it in a heartbeat.
And what would you say to him?
Let’s work together.
But what could you accomplish? He came in saying, “I want to work with both sides, I want to cross the aisle”—and it’s ugly already.
Because they haven’t been very bipartisan.
Do you think bipartisanship can work?
No. [pause] Look, I’m sorry, I know this is, you know, la-la land and Rodney King time and we all wanna get along, but that is not the nature of American politics. That is not the nature of politics, period.
I don’t know if refreshing’s the word, but to hear someone say bipartisanship doesn’t work—
It doesn’t work! I mean, I understand the ideal of it. But at the end of the day, this is a game of winners and losers. This is zero-sum. Your winning is my losing. My winning is your losing.
Okay, so if bipartisanship doesn’t work, what on earth would you and Barack Obama accomplish by sitting down together?
You find a common ground.
What’s the common ground now?
Economic recovery—that’s the common ground. That’s the goal. The common ground is what we ultimately decide we can live with. And that means what I’m willing to sacrifice and what you’re willing to sacrifice. In other words, I’m willing to give up something on X if you’re willing to give up something on Y.
How has the economy affected you?
Oh, my gosh. I’ve seen a 50 percent drop in my retirement, you know, so now I’ve gotta work a little bit longer. And it’s a big deal. I’ve only gotten into a position where I can save long-term in the last two or three years. I mean, I’m basically living like most Americans, and still do, you know—working paycheck to paycheck, trying to make the ends meet. I got a kid in college. I got a mortgage. I got all these things I gotta deal with, like everybody else.
How much of your pro-life stance, for you, is informed not just by your Catholic faith but by the fact that you were adopted?
Oh, a lot. Absolutely. I see the power of life in that—I mean, and the power of choice! The thing to keep in mind about it… Uh, you know, I think as a country we get off on these misguided conversations that throw around terms that really misrepresent truth.
Explain that.
The choice issue cuts two ways. You can choose life, or you can choose abortion. You know, my mother chose life. So, you know, I think the power of the argument of choice boils down to stating a case for one or the other.
Are you saying you think women have the right to choose abortion?
Yeah. I mean, again, I think that’s an individual choice.
You do?
Yeah. Absolutely.
Are you saying you don’t want to overturn Roe v. Wade?
I think Roe v. Wade—as a legal matter, Roe v. Wade was a wrongly decided matter.
Okay, but if you overturn Roe v. Wade, how do women have the choice you just said they should have?
The states should make that choice. That’s what the choice is. The individual choice rests in the states. Let them decide.
Do pro-choicers have a place in the Republican Party?
Absolutely!
How so?
You know, Lee Atwater said it best: We are a big-tent party. We recognize that there are views that may be divergent on some issues, but our goal is to correspond, or try to respond, to some core values and principles that we can agree on.
Do you think you’re more welcoming to pro-choice people than Democrats are to pro-lifers?
Now that’s a good question. I would say we are. Because the Democrats wouldn’t allow a pro-lifer to speak at their convention. We’ve had many a pro-choicer speak at ours—long before Rudy Giuliani. So yeah, that’s something I’ve been trying to get our party to appreciate. It’s not just in our words but in our actions, we’ve been a party that’s much more embracing. Even when we have missed the boat on, uh, minority issues, the Bush administration did an enormous amount to advance the individual opportunities for minorities in our country. In housing. In education. In health care.
How’d you miss the boat?
Well, we missed the boat in that we don’t talk about it. We don’t share that part of the story. We don’t understand and appreciate it enough to actually get out and articulate it. We miss it, we just completely miss it. We don’t see it for what it is, as a part of our philosophy. And so I’d like to see us do more of that, to engage in that conversation.
All right, how much is being a black man gonna help you do that?
I have no idea. Because I still think there’s a degree of racism that exists out there that you still have to confront. You know, folks see me walk in a room, they don’t see the chairman of the Republican Party, they see a black man just walked into the room.
You think that?
Yeah. So that’s still… In this era where we have a black president, that doesn’t change my reality.
But it does.
How?
Doesn’t it change perception?
Oh, you mean to tell me because Barack Obama’s president, teachers all of a sudden are gonna magically—
No, that’s not—
Wait, now, hold up! Gonna have a textbook on her desk that’s current as opposed to ten years old?
No, but—
All right, so how… So at what point does it change?
Maybe the question is, what good change comes from his election?
The only good change that comes from it is that it happened. The rest is up to us individually. It happened, all right? Now what? How does this help us deal with redlining? How does this help us deal with driving while black? How does this help us deal with bad education?
I would imagine that you are more valuable to the Republican Party today because you’re a black man.
Um, I don’t know. We’ll see if that’s true. [laughs] I would like to think I brought value to the Republican Party long before Barack showed up. I mean, I’ve been doing this long before he showed up.
Well, would you have this job if you were white?
Would I have this job? Now, that’s the reverse of the question I typically get. I usually get, would I have this job if the president were white? And my answer to that is yes. But would I have this job if I were white? [long pause] The answer to that is I don’t know. I don’t know. That’s a very good question. And it says a lot about, I think, where the party is right now that I can’t answer it.
What was your reaction when you first heard that McCain picked Sarah Palin?
I loved it.
You did?
Well, I know the governor. I know her. I liked her. And you know what? To be fair, before she was demonized and denigrated by the national media, a lot of people thought it was a bold, ballsy move. They thought, Wow.
Yeah, well, wow can mean a lot of things.
I can tell you for a fact, because I’ve got the e-mails. I somehow got in some Democrat loop; I have friends who sometimes include me in stuff, and then they forget I’m there, and they continue to send it out, and people start responding. That weekend, there were e-mails that went around that basically said, “Ohmigod, we’ve got to stop this. We’ve got to make sure that within ten days McCain is kicking her off the ticket.” Because they knew what she represented, after what they’d just done to Hillary Clinton. They put Hillary so far under the bus, she became a tread on the tire.
You still like Palin?
I do.
Is she the future of your party?
She’s one of many leaders that we will have emerge over the next, uh, four to seven years, yeah.
At the end of the day, did she help or hurt the ticket?
I think she helped immensely. I think, uh, people want to put it in the context of how the liberal media responded to her. They were threatened by her.
Why would the media be threatened?
Because! This woman had appeal!
Why would the media be threatened by someone with appeal?
Because they have their own agenda! Remember, in my view, Barack Obama is their creation. I mean, come on! They got behind him very early, and they stayed with him all the way through. And they’ve admitted it. Even The Washington Post—what was it, two weeks after the election?—finally said, “Oh, yeah, I guess we were a little biased in our reporting on Barack Obama.” This country still doesn’t know who this man is!
You believe that?
You don’t know what his philosophical orientation is.
How did you feel when the Muslim rumors were going around?
I didn’t have any feeling about it. I mean, he got up and said, “I’m not a Muslim.” All right, fine, let’s move on. But that speaks to, you know, concerns people have.
Go on.
Again, you can’t put this in the context of just Republicans or right-wing scary folks. I mean, I know a lot of Democrats. I’ve had the conversation—I live in a black community, I hang out in Starbucks there, and there are people who have that concern.
You mean your Starbucks hasn’t closed yet?
No, my Starbucks has not closed. And it better not! You cannot close a Starbucks in a black community. We’ll riot!
So, Rush Limbaugh—good or bad for you guys?
Rush is a friend. I like Rush. Rush is a bomb-thrower extraordinaire. And we need him. We need him because what he does is, he stimulates debate. And I know it drives a lot of folks on the left loony. But so does Al Franken for us. Okay? So don’t give me, “Rush is a bad guy, we need to offset him.” You already have. You got Al Franken, for goodness sakes.
What about Ann Coulter?
Ann Coulter is one of the best bomb-throwers in the business. She is the Carville of the Republican Party, although I think she’s probably a little bit better at it at times. I think it’s precious the way the Democrats react to her and many others, like Rush Limbaugh. I just find it hysterically precious that they’ve become so sanctimonious about her and what she has to say. Yes, she’s got an edge to her—and it’s great.
Let’s go back to the economy. You taught economics as a seminarian, didn’t you?
I did.
In your opinion, what’s the Republican alternative to the stimulus package? Is it “Do nothing”?
No! See, the Democrats totally miss the point. The Republicans weren’t saying, “Do nothing.” Republicans have been saying, “Do the right thing.” And the right thing is to concentrate on that sector of the economy that triggered this in the first place: housing. That had a residual effect on other industries—the financial institutions and banks. And put in place the strategies that would help correct the problem there, and incentivize the small-business owners throughout the country, who are the ones who actually do the hiring and firing in this nation. Because 70 percent of the workforce works with small businesses. So the reality of it is, Do the right thing.
How much of the blame do you think Republicans should take for getting us into this mess?
I think—look, I’m not denying our share of responsibility here. Just like the Democrats who sat on those congressional committees—when the president and Republicans were saying that there’s a problem with Freddie and Fannie—were poo-pooing that and saying, “No, it’s just fine.” I’m not absolving anybody for this mess.
What specifically do you blame Bush for, economywise?
Oh, my goodness. The massive bailout at the end of his term? I mean, I don’t even want to use—I don’t even want to get into a blame game, ’cause that’s typical Washington stuff.
What do you think Bush’s legacy will be?
You know, I think the closeness of his administration to events right now and the public perspective on those events and his handling of those events and the outcome—you know, right now, I think, has a mixed result. ’Cause while everyone could scream and jump up and down about the war, you can’t take away from the guy a number of things. One, he didn’t waver in his determination to keep America safe, which has resulted in eight years now without terrorist activity on our soil. He put in place the mechanisms that I think will serve the Obama administration very well, and in fact, as we see, the Obama administration is adopting a lot of Bush policies on the war and the approach for homeland security—including bringing on his secretary of defense. So when people talk about—you know, during the campaign—that John McCain would be a third Bush term? Welcome to the third Bush term, when it comes to national security and foreign affairs.
What’s your opinion of Cheney?
Perhaps one of the most effective and one of the most important vice presidents the nation has had, period. Period. I don’t care if you like the man, I don’t care if you hate the man, you cannot take away from the fact that he was an individual who redefined the role of a vice president at a time of crisis, who brought gravitas to the job.
Do you have any criticism of how Dick Cheney played his role?
Oh gosh, yes. But I think, at the end of the day, the American people are a little bit better off, a little bit safer, because of what he did. Now, we can make the argument about the style of it, we can make the argument about some of the details of it, but it was effective.
Did you ever vote for a Democrat?
Oh yeah. Absolutely.
Who?
Oh, now, you know I’m not gonna tell you that.
Well, how many Democrats have you voted for?
Quite a few. I mean, remember where I live. I live in Prince George’s County! I’m outnumbered five to one—so you know, there are ballots where there’s not a Republican running.
Did you ever vote for a Democrat for president?
Uh-uh.
No? Okay.
Well, I take that back. I take that back. Let me think, let me think. I’m going back to my first vote.… Um, I was really annoyed with Gerald Ford for pardoning Richard Nixon. Because I thought, you know, when you dishonor the office of the presidency the way he did—and I liked Nixon for his policies, I liked Nixon for a whole lot of things, but Watergate to me was just one of those low points. Not just for the Republican Party but for our country. So when you dishonor the office that way, I don’t think you get a pass. That was my first election that I voted in. I was 18. And I had a very strong view on it, and I still do. Uh, so, I’m trying to remember back, if I had a view that was so strong that I actually wound up voting for Jimmy Carter. Um… [long pause] No, I don’t think it was that strong. [laughs]
But you’re not sure?
No, I didn’t do it. I didn’t pull the trigger.
But you came close?
I did not pull the trigger, no. No, I probably wound up voting for Ford.
Probably? Okay. Which Democrat do you most admire?
Aw, wow. [extremely long pause]
You can do dead or living, if that helps.
Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking. Um…you know who it would probably be? Probably Harry Truman. The guy wasn’t given a dime’s worth of respect, and I kinda know how that feels.
Did you watch the Oscars?
I did! I love the Oscars. Despite what Mr. Shales said in his review in The Washington Post, I liked it. I thought it was: [claps]. And the host! Who knew?
Did you watch the red-carpet stuff, too?
I did. I’m looking for who’s got what dress on, you know? I’m looking at the dresses. I’m lookin’ at what they’re doing with the hair. I’m lookin at the fellas. Now, you know, guys are wearing black and white, and I get that, but there’s some style points I could share with some of these brothers out there who just ain’t gettin’ it together.
What do you think of Barack’s sartorial skills?
I… You know what? [drumming fingers on his desk] The white tie at the Inauguration was not working. That was wrong. I’m sorry, white tie only goes with tails. Sor-ry! Wear the tails, bro. Get the waistcoat and the tails. And the studs—you can play around with the studs if you want, but c’mon, bro, don’t do the white tie. Did Not Work. And it did not complement what she wore.
Yeah, how do you think she’s doing?
Oh, I lo— [stops himself] I think she’s doing great so far. But the inaugural dress, I wasn’t feelin’ that.
No?
Nooo. Didn’t like the cut. It was not flattering to her. All the little puff things on it—what was that all about? She should have been there in a, you know—she could have done a Valentino, but she’s a little more hip than that. I just thought it was a little bit [pause]…not her is the only way I can put it.
Are you always impeccably dressed? Are you like this at home?
Yeah! Oh, my kids hate it. I’m the guy who tucks his undershirt into his pajamas. I mean, that’s how bad it is. My kids, they die when they see me. They’re like, “Dad, take the shirt out of the pants.” But the idea of having, like, my shirt outside of my pants?
Not gonna happen?
It happens, but it happens on very rare occasions. And I probably will have to have had one or two drinks before.
That said, a lot of his positions do not seem really thought through.
