Circumsion in the news

[Kodiak]

I guess that's my question: Can it wait? I can't imagine a teenager (that's when I think my son would be capable of understanding the decision) electing such a procedure. Perhaps that's an answer in and of itself.

Of course it can, I'm uncircumcised and as long as you teach your son how to use soap, he'll be fine. In fact our sons doctor told us when he was born that all the care required for his penis was just to let him sit in the bath water and it would get clean. Other then that, how do you feel about your infant son having his wiener chopped without anesthetic?

If that's all the care it requires, then I'm fine with that. The article did specify that almost zero circumcisions are performed without anesthetic, but I think I'm going to insist that my son NOT be circumcised. If he really wants to "look like his dad" when he's older, then it'll be his decision.

[General Zod]

If that's all the care it requires, then I'm fine with that. The article did specify that almost zero circumcisions are performed without anesthetic, but I think I'm going to insist that my son NOT be circumcised. If he really wants to "look like his dad" when he's older, then it'll be his decision.

. . .what? You realize this sounds incredibly creepy when taken into context, right?

[Cairber]

Care of the uncircumcised penis from the AAP

also here:

older, more in depth version

Until it retracts on its own, you simply wash it as if it were a finger (just like any body part). When the child can retract it on their own, you can teach the three Rs:

Retract
Rinse with mild soap (sometimes not even needed until after puberty)
Replace

It's easier than washing female parts!

[Aaron]

. . .what? You realize this sounds incredibly creepy when taken into context, right?

It's still an argument I hear quite often, despite the practice of showering with your kids having fallen out of fashion years ago.

If that's all the care it requires, then I'm fine with that. The article did specify that almost zero circumcisions are performed without anesthetic, but I think I'm going to insist that my son NOT be circumcised. If he really wants to "look like his dad" when he's older, then it'll be his decision.

My apologies, it was my understanding that it was still performed without it. But yes, it is very easy to clean.

Edit: Do switch your soap to something like the original Ivory, unscented. Even though it's like a finger, scented soap can still cause irritation and as he gets older it might cause an infection. I've been through that once with both my kids and having one doesn't make them happy.

[General Zod]

It's still an argument I hear quite often, despite the practice of showering with your kids having fallen out of fashion years ago.

I've heard that some people use it in real life but I never quite expected I'd see it on here.

[Cairber]

My apologies, it was my understanding that it was still performed without it. But yes, it is very easy to clean.

study from 1998

Results. Fifty-eight percent (1768) of the questionnaires were returned and interpretable from the following specialists: pediatricians (PEDs), 73% (n = 691); family practitioners (FPs), 52% (n = 464); and obstetricians (OBs), 51% (n = 623).

Of the respondents, 956 (54%) perform at least one circumcision per month (35% of PEDs; 60% of FPs; 70% of OBs). Of the physicians performing circumcisions, 45% use anesthesia (71% of PEDs; 56% of FPs; 25% of OBs). Of physicians using anesthesia, 85% use dorsal penile nerve block.

another study from 2004

56% of family practitioners, and an embarrassingly low 25% of
obstetricians performing circumcision are using analgesia/anesthesia

[Aaron]

snip

Ouch, still I suppose it's better then when I was a kid, where preme's weren't given anything at all because it was commonly thought that they didn't feel pain.

I've heard that some people use it in real life but I never quite expected I'd see it on here.

It makes a certain twisted kind of sense until you realize that "hey, we shouldn't be comparing wangs with our kids".

[Kodiak]

If that's all the care it requires, then I'm fine with that. The article did specify that almost zero circumcisions are performed without anesthetic, but I think I'm going to insist that my son NOT be circumcised. If he really wants to "look like his dad" when he's older, then it'll be his decision.

. . .what? You realize this sounds incredibly creepy when taken into context, right?

I put it in quotes because it's a canned argument that I've heard before and I think it's ridiculous. Sorry the sarcasm didn't come through though. I'd never compare wangs with my son, no matter what.

[Illuminatus Primus]

If that's all the care it requires, then I'm fine with that. The article did specify that almost zero circumcisions are performed without anesthetic, but I think I'm going to insist that my son NOT be circumcised. If he really wants to "look like his dad" when he's older, then it'll be his decision.

. . .what? You realize this sounds incredibly creepy when taken into context, right?

You don't think this basic psychological conformity and familiarity issue enters into this, and any other body image issues? Grow up. People see people's junk.

[Terralthra]

If that's all the care it requires, then I'm fine with that. The article did specify that almost zero circumcisions are performed without anesthetic, but I think I'm going to insist that my son NOT be circumcised. If he really wants to "look like his dad" when he's older, then it'll be his decision.

. . .what? You realize this sounds incredibly creepy when taken into context, right?

I was circumcised at birth for a similar reason. Not to "look like Dad," but to look "normal." When I was born, it had been standard procedure to circumcise for decades, and basically every male I'd come in contact with and have incidental sight of their genitalia would be circumcised. My father thought it important that I not feel like I was weird and outcast in a middle school/high school locker room. It's not a good reason to perform a mutilating procedure, but all other things being equal, social conformity is not an inconsequential force to factor into one's decisions. If I had had the choice, I'd not be circumcised, but such is life.

[Vehrec]

If that's all the care it requires, then I'm fine with that. The article did specify that almost zero circumcisions are performed without anesthetic, but I think I'm going to insist that my son NOT be circumcised. If he really wants to "look like his dad" when he's older, then it'll be his decision.

. . .what? You realize this sounds incredibly creepy when taken into context, right?

You don't think this basic psychological conformity and familiarity issue enters into this, and any other body image issues? Grow up. People see people's junk.

I had plenty of chances to see my dad's junk growing up, and I had exactly this circumcised/noncircumcised gap to deal with. Frankly, I never gave it much thought and if I did it would have been to think to myself that it was my dad who was weird. After all, there were three guys in my family, so I had some points of comparison in my little brother, which led me to conclude that the old man was the odd one out. I was admittedly somewhat confused as to why my dad looked like that, but it was no skin off my back. I also must admit that I cannot remember clearly when I first understood just what circumcision actually was, but there you have my very early experiences as best I can recall them.

[Rye]

You don't think this basic psychological conformity and familiarity issue enters into this, and any other body image issues? Grow up. People see people's junk.

This is true. Unless you're really rather prudish, you as a parent or you as a child will see your parents naked. Everyone has to take baths or get up in the morning on a hot day, or go swimming with their kids. When you've got your own house, a certain amount of nudity that your kids get exposed to would be normal.

My dad didn't even have both arms, but that didn't make me want to amputate one to look like him. If there had been significant peer pressure around circ at school, though, I can imagine feeling the conformity bullshit some more. That said, since the ratios were heavily in favour of normal penises rather than cut ones, our school taught us that people are sometimes circed, and they never really got bullied over it.

[Aaron]

I had plenty of chances to see my dad's junk growing up, and I had exactly this circumcised/noncircumcised gap to deal with. Frankly, I never gave it much thought and if I did it would have been to think to myself that it was my dad who was weird. After all, there were three guys in my family, so I had some points of comparison in my little brother, which led me to conclude that the old man was the odd one out. I was admittedly somewhat confused as to why my dad looked like that, but it was no skin off my back. I also must admit that I cannot remember clearly when I first understood just what circumcision actually was, but there you have my very early experiences as best I can recall them.

It's not as big a deal as people think it is, my father is cut and I'm not and it took about 15 minutes of explanation from my mom & dad to clear up the questions.

[Kodiak]

I had plenty of chances to see my dad's junk growing up, and I had exactly this circumcised/noncircumcised gap to deal with. Frankly, I never gave it much thought and if I did it would have been to think to myself that it was my dad who was weird. After all, there were three guys in my family, so I had some points of comparison in my little brother, which led me to conclude that the old man was the odd one out. I was admittedly somewhat confused as to why my dad looked like that, but it was no skin off my back. I also must admit that I cannot remember clearly when I first understood just what circumcision actually was, but there you have my very early experiences as best I can recall them.

It's not as big a deal as people think it is, my father is cut and I'm not and it took about 15 minutes of explanation from my mom & dad to clear up the questions.

I went home last night and told my wife "We're not gonna cut the boy". At first she thought I was April Fool-ing her to which I replied "If it were a joke, it would be funny." She then went off on this big spiel about how he needs to look like me and it'll weird-him-out/mess-him-up if he sees he's different than daddy. I'm not really sure what to say since she's convinced it's very important. I think in the end she'll respect my wishes, but I'd appreciate any help people can give.

[Cairber]

How about the Penn and Teller episode on circumcision? (available online and youtube, I can send you links if you want)

It's a little crass at times and somewhat goofy, but, in the end, it's extremely anti circumcision and gives lots of good facts.

my favorite, simple articles on circumcision:
from Men's Health Magazine
collection of statements from medical societies
handout on the anatomy and functions of the foreskin (graphic drawings)

This is medical in nature and has a lot of medical talk in it, but it is a 19 minute educational video about the prepuce (foreskin) this video is not work safe and contains actual images of penis/foreskin/retraction/etc:
prepuce function

If all else fails, ask her how she feels about her clitoral hood (her own prepuce). Maybe that will help her start thinking more about the position of the child.

If she REALLY wants the babe to look like daddy, you can always buy a pubic hair toupee for the babe and figure out some way to make it bigger and a different color

[Cairber]

Also, where do you live? (I am assuming USA here)

Regional rates of newborn circumcision varied greatly (figure 2). When adjusted for the population of each region, the percentage of newborn boys circumcised in the Midwest or Northeast was more than two times greater than in the West. In the Midwest about three-fourths of newborn boys (74.9 percent) were circumcised at the hospital and in the Northeast nearly two-thirds (64.5 percent) were circumcised. In contrast, less than a third were circumcised in the West (31.1 percent) and 56.3 percent in the South.

This was 2005, and the numbers are still going down!

[Big Phil]

I went home last night and told my wife "We're not gonna cut the boy". At first she thought I was April Fool-ing her to which I replied "If it were a joke, it would be funny." She then went off on this big spiel about how he needs to look like me and it'll weird-him-out/mess-him-up if he sees he's different than daddy. I'm not really sure what to say since she's convinced it's very important. I think in the end she'll respect my wishes, but I'd appreciate any help people can give.

Why don't you tell her that, if you have a girl, you'll insist that she also be circumsized. See what she thinks about that...

I didn't have this problem with my wife when my son was born; she pretty much said (paraphrasing) "he's a boy, I don't have a penis, you make the call."

[FSTargetDrone]

The idea that people still think circumcision is still acceptable... Horrifying.

Kodiak, I am glad you have decided against it for your child.

If I had any say in the matter, I never would have allowed it to happen to me. I haven't suffered any physical problems, but I have this nice scar around the circumference I'd rather not have.

[Aaron]

I went home last night and told my wife "We're not gonna cut the boy". At first she thought I was April Fool-ing her to which I replied "If it were a joke, it would be funny." She then went off on this big spiel about how he needs to look like me and it'll weird-him-out/mess-him-up if he sees he's different than daddy. I'm not really sure what to say since she's convinced it's very important. I think in the end she'll respect my wishes, but I'd appreciate any help people can give.

I'm sorry that I can't really give you much more advice then to show her what Cairber has posted above me. I'd opt against sarcasm and ridicule for now (though I like Sanchez's option for the potential comedy) and just explain your reasoning why you don't want to. Perhaps throw in how much easier diaper changes and baths will be (I assume you'll still be working and she'll be the primary care giver), which will save her time and some stress.

[CaptainChewbacca]

They've already got a girl, so I don't think Kodiak will be using that potential argument.

[Justforfun000]

The simplest way to deal with the circumcision is this. It's their body. The foreskin is there for a functional and protective sheath that also contributes to sexual sensation.

Why should anyone other than the person who possesses it be morally allowed to make this judgment call? Is it something that can be done at any point in life if the male so chooses? Basically yes. Is it something they can have reversed if they did not want to be circumcised? No!

Pretty straight forward to me. Arguments of merit aside, I can personally say that I am deeply angry that I was circumcised and would give anything to have had that decision left to me. I should be able to sue, but that's the bullshit of life.

[Rye]

I went home last night and told my wife "We're not gonna cut the boy". At first she thought I was April Fool-ing her to which I replied "If it were a joke, it would be funny." She then went off on this big spiel about how he needs to look like me and it'll weird-him-out/mess-him-up if he sees he's different than daddy. I'm not really sure what to say since she's convinced it's very important. I think in the end she'll respect my wishes, but I'd appreciate any help people can give.

Show her the Bullshit episode (I would say it's the finest episode they've ever done) and if need be say that many men would've liked to have kept their skin, given the choice. If you want anecdotal evidence; my dad was circed, my brother and I weren't, and we never got bizarre neuroses over it. You could point to all the bald men who have children that aren't bald, too. Kids don't usually get all "omg I am not exactly like my father, what am I?" over stuff like this, and it takes like 10 seconds to explain that people come in different shapes.

[Broomstick]

I went home last night and told my wife "We're not gonna cut the boy". At first she thought I was April Fool-ing her to which I replied "If it were a joke, it would be funny." She then went off on this big spiel about how he needs to look like me and it'll weird-him-out/mess-him-up if he sees he's different than daddy. I'm not really sure what to say since she's convinced it's very important. I think in the end she'll respect my wishes, but I'd appreciate any help people can give.

Not that I discuss this topic with my nephews (I got this info from my sisters, actually)...

My nephews are all uncut. Their fathers are cut. The boys seem quite happy to be uncut, have not expressed confusion, and since the ratio of cut/uncut boys in their schooling has been nearly 1:1 that hasn't been an issue, either.

Point out to your wife that your son, at least until puberty, will NOT look like dad regardless as the length and girth of his penis will be notably smaller, he will not have pubic hair, etc.

I'm not going to tell you how to raise your kids, but it seems to me that if a boy can regard his small, skinny, bald dick and balls and compare it to and adult's much larger and hairier organ without lifelong trauma or hysteria then he can handle the cut/uncut difference.

If she REALLY wants the babe to look like daddy, you can always buy a pubic hair toupee for the babe and figure out some way to make it bigger and a different color

The correct term for a public wig is "merkin", which may help in looking for one if you choose to go that route.

[Junghalli]

She then went off on this big spiel about how he needs to look like me and it'll weird-him-out/mess-him-up if he sees he's different than daddy. I'm not really sure what to say since she's convinced it's very important. I think in the end she'll respect my wishes, but I'd appreciate any help people can give.

1) Why would it mess him up? Nobody worries about their child getting messed up if they have different eye colors from their parents or something like that. People have different physical features, it's no big deal. What's so important about having a wang just like your dad's? It just seems a really weird, fetishistic focus on the genitalia.

2) The argument fails for the same reason Freudian penis envy hypothesis fails. He's much more likely to conclude that you're weird than that he's weird. People pretty much always assume of the bat that they are normal and anybody that differs from them is weird.

As anecdotal evidence, I'm uncut myself and the first sight I had of the wang of another guy was of a guy who was circumcised. I just kind of went "huh, that looks weird" and shrugged it off. It never occurred to me that I might be considered "abnormal" until I saw the idea being bandied about by shallow xenophobic women and circumcision apologists. I've never wished I had been circumcised, in fact just the opposite; from everything I've heard about the effects of circumcision I'm very grateful to my mom for not having it done to me.

Really, the thing that annoys me most about the "it'll look weird" argument is that it effectively advocates that circumcision must be continued in perpetuity for no other reason than simply because it is the status quo. It guarentees that circumcision will always be the "normal", because nobody should ever break the cycle, and to hell with considering the actual merits and disadvantages of the practice.