US boycotts UN conference on racism

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Darth Wong
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Re: US boycotts UN conference on racism

Post by Darth Wong »

Sea Skimmer wrote:You mean that quote from Hamas, which consistently backs up its words with military action?
Unlike our anti-Islamic rhetoric, which we would never back up with military action and a multi-billion dollar per year stream of military aid to Israel?

I don't think you're making any effort to imagine how the other side perceives this. I am not fan of Islamic or any other kind of religious fervour; I think this is well-established. But that doesn't mean I don't try to understand what's going through their heads. The fact is that they perceive the West to be stirred up into fits of anti-Islamic hatred by right-wing ideologues (this is actually not entirely unreasonable, and has some truth to it), and they believe that this induces the West to undertake a global campaign to eradicate Islam.

In that context, they view criticism of Islam as part of this global campaign: a means of inciting the masses and inflaming their passions to go to war, as the Crusaders once did. Is it really so surprising that they think it needs to be silenced?
That’s not what I thought we were talking about which is international influence on the matter. Hamas is at war with Israel, it exists for no other purpose, so of course its damn well going to be attacked, that is exactly what it wants.

That is not damn well the same as throwing people in jail in America for saying Islam sucks on a blog, or Syria declaring that Israel should not exist, but then turning right around and suggesting that it’s open to negotiating permanent territorial boundaries with the Jews while barely even reacting to overt Israeli military provocations.
Not in mechanism and formality, no. But the end result is similar: rhetoric ends up being used as justification for policies which result in hardship and death.
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Re: US boycotts UN conference on racism

Post by eyl »

Darth Wong wrote:Western nations are good at politics so they don't come right out and propose an actual resolution. They simply automatically veto anything that is critical of Israel.

They're obviously taking sides and acting as if Israel is "the good guys" here, and I quite frankly don't see it. Yes, the other side does some terrible things. So does Israel. They're both assholes.
Except that there are quite a number of UNSC resolutions critical of Israel, which self-evidently weren't vetoed (and some of them were voted for by Western countries)*. OTOH, you'd be hard-pressed to find an equivalent resolution condemning an Arab country (at least for actions against Israel). In addition, you can find many more General Assembly resolutions condeming Israel - and in some cases Western countries voted for those as well

*For example, see UNSCR 1544, condemning Israeli actions in Rafah - 14 "ayes", the US abstained
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Re: US boycotts UN conference on racism

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eyl wrote:Except that there are quite a number of UNSC resolutions critical of Israel, which self-evidently weren't vetoed (and some of them were voted for by Western countries)*. OTOH, you'd be hard-pressed to find an equivalent resolution condemning an Arab country (at least for actions against Israel). In addition, you can find many more General Assembly resolutions condeming Israel - and in some cases Western countries voted for those as well

*For example, see UNSCR 1544, condemning Israeli actions in Rafah - 14 "ayes", the US abstained
Which countries do you lump in with "western countries" here? Perhaps I'm being more specific than you are.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

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"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

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Re: US boycotts UN conference on racism

Post by eyl »

Darth Wong wrote:
eyl wrote:Except that there are quite a number of UNSC resolutions critical of Israel, which self-evidently weren't vetoed (and some of them were voted for by Western countries)*. OTOH, you'd be hard-pressed to find an equivalent resolution condemning an Arab country (at least for actions against Israel). In addition, you can find many more General Assembly resolutions condeming Israel - and in some cases Western countries voted for those as well

*For example, see UNSCR 1544, condemning Israeli actions in Rafah - 14 "ayes", the US abstained
Which countries do you lump in with "western countries" here? Perhaps I'm being more specific than you are.
US, Canada, Western Europe, Japan (probably forgetting a few).

Again, to go back to the example of UNSCR 1544 - the only country which did not vote in favor of it was the US - including France, Germany, Spain, and the UK (going by the list of Council members that year).

For another example, see the UNGA resolutions concerning the security barrier - pretty much all of the EU voted in favor.
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