Texas tries Secessionism 2.0: Seeks to null Fed. laws.

[LMSx]

DOCTOR Ron Paul explains why Texas seceding from America isn't Anti-American:



Shorter Ron Paul: we'd be better off with a Confederate States of America. Also, national unity is a socialist scheme.

[Loner]

Looks like Oklahoma is moving along with Texas.

House bypasses governor’s veto to claim Oklahoma’s sovereignty

BY MICHAEL MCNUTT
Published: May 5, 2009
Modified: May 6, 2009 at 12:51 pm



House bypasses governor’s veto to claim Oklahoma’s sovereignty
Comments Comment on this article378
Buzz up!
BY MICHAEL MCNUTT
Published: May 5, 2009
Modified: May 6, 2009 at 12:51 pm


Although Gov. Brad Henry vetoed similar legislation 10 days earlier, House members Monday again approved a resolution claiming Oklahoma’s sovereignty. Unlike House Joint Resolution 1003, House Concurrent Resolution 1028 does not need the governor’s approval.

The House passed the measure 73-22. It now goes to the Senate.

"We’re going to get it done one way or the other,” said the resolutions’ author, Rep. Charles Key, R-Oklahoma City.

"I think our governor is out of step.”

House Democrats objected, saying the issue already had been taken up and had been vetoed, but House Speaker Pro Tempore Kris Steele, R-Shawnee, ruled the veto is not final action.

Key said he expects HCR 1028 will pass in the Senate. HJR 1003 earlier passed the House 83-18 and won approval in the Senate 29-18.

Henry vetoed HJR 1003 because he said it suggested, among other things, that Oklahoma should return federal tax dollars.

Key said HCR 1028, which, if passed, would be sent to Democratic President Barack Obama and the Democratic-controlled Congress, would not jeopardize federal funds but would tell Congress to "get back into their proper constitutional role.” The resolution states the federal government should "cease and desist” mandates that are beyond the scope of its powers.

Key said many federal laws violate the 10th Amendment, which says powers not delegated to the U.S. government "are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.” The Constitution lists about 20 duties required of the U.S. government, he said.

Congress should not be providing bailouts to financial institutions and automakers, he said.

"We give all this money to all these different entities, including automakers, and now they’re talking about, ‘Well maybe it’s better to let them go bankrupt,’” Key said. "Well, maybe we should have let them go bankrupt before we gave them the money.”

[Crossroads Inc.]

Good lord, the Right wing really is truly gone batshit insane. We got a fairly 'liberal' Black Democrat elected into office.... And it just snapped their fragile little minds. I mean sure we like to make fun of this, but how far will it go? Exactly how much are these people willing to push it? What happens when its not just Texas and Olk? Can you imagine 3, 5, 7 states passing legislation saying they want to Succeed from the Union? Can you even imagine how that would make us look as a country?

We put up with 8 years of Bush the power mad dictator, and after the first 100days the far right are happily willing to let the Union dissolve? who ARE these people?

[Loner]

Well.......... Montana did just pass a law that will challenge the Feds gun laws

Montana fires a warning shot over states' rights

Associated Press - April 30, 2009 3:34 PM ET

HELENA, Mont. (AP) - Lawmakers in Montana are trying to trigger a battle over gun control and possibly make a larger point about the intrusive nature of the federal government.

The Montana Legislature has approved a bill asserting that guns manufactured in Montana and sold in Montana to people who intend to keep their weapons in Montana are exempt from federal gun registration.

The Alaska House of Representatives approved a similar measure this month for guns manufactured in Alaska.

Montana legislators say they are ready for a legal showdown over how far the federal government's regulatory authority extends.

Democratic Governor Brian Schweitzer signed the bill and says it's another way of demonstrating the sovereignty of the state of Montana.

A similar measure has been introduced in Texas.

The federal government has generally argued that it has authority under the interstate commerce clause of the US Constitution to regulate guns because they can easily be transported across state lines.

Critics of the gun measures say exempting guns from federal laws anywhere would undermine efforts to stem gun violence everywhere.

To be fair to the right-wingers, when Bush won again in 04, the left-wingers were having discussions in having the blue states break-off and join Canada. In this case, the right-wing is taking it a step further.

[Crossroads Inc.]

To be fair to the right-wingers, when Bush won again in 04, the left-wingers were having discussions in having the blue states break-off and join Canada. In this case, the right-wing is taking it a step further.

In 2004 I and a great many others thought the same, Let Bush have America and the red states, let go join Canada! but see, most of those people where simple voters... THESE people are legislators, congressmen, people IN the government, when people IN the government start to promote open succession, you now they have gone off the deep end.

[Aratech]

Am I crazy for thinking this will all end in tears?

[Questor]

It did last time. I suspect that it will be quick this time. Hopefully more of a nullification crisis than the Union having to lay down the law on the battlefield.

I hope this results in the FBI perp-walking every single legislator that voted for it into a federal trial for high treason.

[LMSx]

I live in Washington state, and I recall zero discussion of secession + joining Canada in 2004 except as a joke.

Link
A Research 2000 poll commission by Daily Kos:
(a little ugly formatting, so I bolded the highlights)

QUESTION: Do you think the state that you live in would be better off as an independent nation or as part of the United States of America?
US IND NOT SURE
ALL 79 5 16
MEN 78 7 15
WOM 80 3 17
DEM 91 2 7
REP 62 12 26
IND 80 4 16
OTH/REF 72 6 22
NON VOTERS81 3 16
WHITE 74 6 20
BLACK 95 1 4
LATINO 88 2 10
OTHER/REF 89 2 9
18-29 89 3 8
30-44 74 5 21
45-59 84 4 12
60+ 71 8 21
NORTHEAST90 2 8
SOUTH 61 9 30
MIDWEST 86 4 10
WEST 84 4 12

QUESTION: Would you approve or disapprove of the state that you live in leaving the United States?
APPROVE DISAPPROVE NOT SURE
ALL 4 82 14
MEN 5 81 14
WOMEN 3 83 14
DEM 2 95 3
REP 9 63 28
IND 3 83 14
OTH/REF 5 74 21
NON VOTERS2 83 15
WHITE 5 77 18
BLACK 1 98 1
LATINO 1 91 8
OTHER/REF 1 92 7
18-29 2 92 6
30-44 4 77 19
45-59 3 87 10
60+ 7 74 19
NORTHEAST1 94 5
SOUTH 8 63 29
MIDWEST 3 89 8
WEST 3 87 10

Why, I do believe this helps illuminate the age old stupid question "who loves America more"?

[Prannon]

All of this talk of secession (not succession; Succession is what happens when a country ceases to exist and successor states arise afterward, like the USSR or Yugoslavia; secession is what happens when part of a country separates from the rest of it without the original country ceasing to be) irritates me a little bit, so I'll play devil's advocate. While true, it is unnerving to hear of it so much from the right wing, it is not yet near crisis proportions.

In order for a secession of catastrophic consequences to occur, there's going to have to be a much greater shift of opinion than is indicated by LMSx's poll. Notice right now that the shift among Republican and Southern voters isn't to "Gung-ho Independence!" so much as it is to uncertainty. A majority still feels that sticking with the US is the better plan. Talk of civil wars and actual secession is kind of empty until you see pluralities or majorities rooting for independence. Out of curiosity, are their any similar polls for the Clinton years? Many people are comparing the right wing reaction to Obama to their reaction to Clinton.

Also, a major secessionist movement probably won't get anywhere unless there is some serious national coordination, as in representatives from Texas, Oklahoma, Montana, and whichever other state get together and start seriously discussing it amongst themselves. That's unlikely to happen without the Federal government dropping the hammer.

So, even though this secession talk is unsettling and it's disturbing to see politicians and a segment of society supporting/considering it, it's unlikely to happen unless the political winds get even sourer.

[Edi]

All of this talk of secession (not succession; Succession is what happens when a country ceases to exist and successor states arise afterward, like the USSR or Yugoslavia; secession is what happens when part of a country separates from the rest of it without the original country ceasing to be) irritates me a little bit,

THANK YOU! It's past time this is pointed out. It's been annoying me more than a little bit and since one of the rules of the forum is that people are supposed to post in proper English, this is going to get enforced. Learn to fucking read and write, people!

[Broomstick]

Yes, it would be especially nice if people who, presumably, speak English as a native tongue could be arsed to use it properly rather than having this pointed out by people who live in Korea and Finland.

[Havok]

Um... I just went through the four pages of this thread, and I didn't see "succession" a single time. Am I missing something?

[Havok]

GE: Oh wait. Nope. Crossroads used it once. And maybe Bean, if you don't want to give him the benefit of the doubt that he meant succeed in seceding. Yeah, this is a serious problem. Bannings?

[CaptainChewbacca]

So Texas, Oklahoma, and maybe Montana... Toss in Colorado and Wyoming and then the fun REALLY starts. That's a wall north to south right there.

Why is real-life seeming more and more like Jericho?

[The Yosemite Bear]

there's discussion in CA about a voter prop to legalize for sale of a popular controlled substance for Tax Revinue....

yes, CA voters want to ignore fed laws too.

[Edi]

GE: Oh wait. Nope. Crossroads used it once. And maybe Bean, if you don't want to give him the benefit of the doubt that he meant succeed in seceding. Yeah, this is a serious problem. Bannings?

Don't tempt me. I don't tend to give benefit of the doubt, because the usage is so widespread. Not in this thread, necessarily, but it has been used in most threads that have discussed secession issues and even here it is common to see people use "succeed" instead of "secede". In some threads, the incorrect usage has been wider than the correct one.

[CaptainChewbacca]

So, if Texas & Oklahoma break off and form their own country, they're seceeding, but if their leaving causes other states to break off to the point where the United States no longer exists, then they're all succeeding?

[Edi]

Essentially yes. In the first case, yes, those two states would be seceding while in the latter all of the separate entities following such a breakup would be successor states to the US. The latter term comes from the term succession, usually used when referring to royal families and the order of succession and other such.

Look up "secede", "secession", "succeed" and "succession" in a dictionary. http://www.merriam-webster.com is a good place to start.

[Prannon]

So, if Texas & Oklahoma break off and form their own country, they're seceeding, but if their leaving causes other states to break off to the point where the United States no longer exists, then they're all succeeding?

Think of it this way Chewie. If at any point the federal government of the United States ceases to exist, whatever comes out of the mess to follow is a successor state, thus they succeed the US government. Secession = separation. Succession = following after.

[Prannon]

Yes, it would be especially nice if people who, presumably, speak English as a native tongue could be arsed to use it properly rather than having this pointed out by people who live in Korea and Finland.

Just for the record, English is my native tongue. I'm from Texas of all places, which explains my interest in this thread and why secession talk irritates me. I'm actually in Korea to teach English.

[Broomstick]

I could rib you about what's spoken down there in Texas not exactly being English... but I'll restrain myself. This time.

[Prannon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah...you could do that. Then again, I might take it as a compliment if you aren't careful.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Well remember the last people to speak queen's english in the USA were them Hillbillies in West Virginia prior to TV ruining their culture. Reminds me I wish I could write Elisabethian double entandres and rymes.