Albania to approve gay marri- wait, Albania? Seriously?

[Duckie]

In other news moon red as blood, locusts consuming the dead

Albania 'to approve gay marriage'
By Mark Lowen
BBC Balkans correspondent

Albanian Prime Minister Sali Berisha speaks in parliament (4 July 2009)
Mr Berisha said discrimination had to end in Albania

Albanian Prime Minister Sali Berisha has announced his party will propose a law legalising same-sex marriage.

It is an unexpected move in a country that is still one of the most conservative in Europe and where homosexuality was illegal until 1995.

Mr Berisha acknowledged the proposed law might provoke debate but maintained that discrimination in modern Albania had to end.

The bill was drawn up by a group of non-governmental organisations.

It has been accepted by Mr Berisha's Democratic Party and will now come before parliament in the autumn.

In a predominantly Muslim country with almost no open homosexual community, the announcement by a conservative PM has taken people by surprise.

Goran Miletic, a Belgrade-based human rights lawyer, working partly on lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) issues said it was an important step forward for the country.

"(It is) encouraging for the LGBT community in Albania, bearing in mind that they are not visible comparing to some other Balkan states like Serbia, like Macedonia or Croatia."

But he said he did not think the law would be passed easily in the face of immediate opposition from religious communities

The reaction by Islamic and Catholic leaders has been vehement.

Under the isolationist rule of Enver Hoxha, Albania was officially an atheist state.

But since the fall of Communism almost two decades ago, religion has once again grown and its leaders' voices are influential.

Albania, though, has set its sights firmly on the goal of European Union membership, and it seems this proposed law is aimed at showing Brussels a progressive new image.

If it is passed in the autumn, it could move the country one step further on its European path.

Without knowing much about Albanian politics, looking at the Assembly seats, if the Democrats and either the Socialists or some of the minor parties vote for this, it'll potentially pass. Especially with a government behind it instead of opposing it. That conservatives are for gay marriage makes me wonder if the socialists will oppose it. The Catholic church and the various Muslims in Albania might not even be able to fuck things up if 'we need this so the EU will like us' is the reasoning.

Current Status of the Gay Agenda, 2009-2010 legislative calendar:
-Luxembourg
-Slovenia (according to its government)
-Portugal (if socialists are reelected)
-Uruguay (if the Broad Front is reelected, maybe?)
-Argentina
-Iceland
-Nepal
-Albania
All according to plan...

no seriously, Albania and Slovenia? What the heck? 10 points to the EU. I'd love to see Croatia and Turkey and such grit their teeth and have to pass gay marriage to get EU Cred. Too bad Poland and Romania were prematurely let in.

Also, once Slovenia and Albania go, we can start officially referring to places like the South as 'less progressive than the Balkans', right?

[Netko]

Croatia won't be passing any such law until the next election - currently, the conservative HDZ is in power, and they very much follow what the church demands, as seen with the extremely conservative assisted reproduction law passed recently (with an official government position that an embryo is a human being) that bans effective in vitro methods in favor of those that "protect the sanctity of life" - and at the same time cut down the chances of pregnancy by half, among other things. There is also the matter of the anti-discrimination law that barely passed - in its first attempt at passage it was sunk by, I shit you not, conservative MPs getting SMSs from Kaptol (seat of the Catholic Church in Croatia) literally minutes before the vote and do to that calling the vote off. I probably won't surprise anyone with the fact that the delightful tolerant Church folk got upset because the law banned discrimination based on gender identity ie. discrimination of transsexuals. In the end it only passed do to recommendations from Europe that delaying passage or not including protections for gender identity would slow down Croatia's entry into the EU.

PM Sanader, who essentially got the last two mandates for the HDZ and partners, inexplicably stepped down last month - very similarly to Sarah Palin, he declared his decision without giving a firm reason. He basically discredited himself and the party in doing so right as Croatia is facing its worst economic situation since the Homeland War do to the global crisis and it was basically interpreted as a rat abandoning a sinking ship in the public consciousness. The problem is that he was replaced by his deputy, Jadranka Kosor (first Croatian female PM), who is seen by everyone as a weak yes man.. err.. woman, and who showed that by buckling and allowing passage of the catastrophically bad previously mentioned assisted reproduction law sponsored by the arch-conservative wing of the HDZ led by the minister for health, despite her personal opinions being much more liberal (which I can actually confirm personally, since as it happens her son and I went to the same high school). Even if she wanted to do anything, and she probably doesn't, she simply would not have the political capital to go against the majority of her own party, and with the economic issues at the forefront, it is extremely unlikely we'll see any movement on the GLBT rights front with the current government.

But it is probable that some sort of marriage equality will pass soon after the next election (with the government this weak, it is likely there will be an early election, and one must be held in the fall of 2011 at the latest) since a change in government is extremely likely and both the major center left party, SDP and the liberal HNS who are likely to be the backbone of a left-wing coalition are in favour of passing a gay marriage law, especially under pressure to show that we aren't more backwards then Albania or Slovenia. It should also be mentioned that Croatia recognizes both same and opposite sex unregistered cohabitation (a couple gains most of the rights associated with marriage after two years living together, however if they want to enjoy those rights they have to prove their relationship in court), so at least until then there is some recognition already in place.

[Narkis]

Albania? Is this for real? Left is right, up is down. What has the world become?

But seriously, even if this passes, Albania will be, afaik, the only place in the Balkans to allow gay marriage. There were talks about legalizing it in Greece, but they met fierce opposition from the conservatives, the religious, the communists and most of the socialists. Pretty much everyone opposed it, other than the smaller far-left party in the parliament and some individuals. (People were quick to accuse those of being gay). The talks were initiated when the mayor of a small island nobody had ever heard of before utilized a loophole in the current civil marriage legislation to marry a few gay couples. They were very quick to close that loophole.

Oh, and the article doesn't mention that the Orthodox church also opposes it, while there are more Orthodox Christians in Albania than Catholics.

[Duckie]

Come to think, Greek legalisation of gay marriage would be a massive economic boon to the country above and beyond most places- imagine tens of thousands of people travelling from Europe and America each year getting married on the island of Lesbos, all spending money on parties and wedding receptions and such. Hell, with that kind of money maybe Greece should name some of the dodecanese Lesbos II and Lesbos III to milk even more out of the name.

Also, if Albania does follow through on this, this will be the first majority Muslim country to legalise same-sex marriage. Granted, Albanians as far as I know aren't and never have been very fanatical Muslims compared to any other country except maybe Turkey (especially due to the illegality of religion due to their communist phase for a generation or two), but it's still something impressive.

[Crown]

The talks were initiated when the mayor of a small island nobody had ever heard of before utilized a loophole in the current civil marriage legislation to marry a few gay couples. They were very quick to close that loophole.

Isn't he taking his case to the court of European Human Rights? He seemed more than keen to take on Karamalis (and Papandreou since lets not kid ourselves if PAOK were in power they'd react the same way as ND) last time I read the story.

[Darth Wong]

This shouldn't come as a huge surprise. Albanian men do not seem to genuinely like their women, based on the way they treat them:

http://genderindex.org/country/albania

Perhaps they're like the Spartans, and they think women are for breeding, but other men are for loving.

[Narkis]

Come to think, Greek legalisation of gay marriage would be a massive economic boon to the country above and beyond most places- imagine tens of thousands of people travelling from Europe and America each year getting married on the island of Lesbos, all spending money on parties and wedding receptions and such. Hell, with that kind of money maybe Greece should name some of the dodecanese Lesbos II and Lesbos III to milk even more out of the name.

That's a pretty good point. Everyone's complaining that this year's tourist season is worse than last year's. And Lesbos already gets much of its income from those who go there for the gay connection. The renaming of the dodecanese would never fly though. Our islanders are pretty passionate, even when large amounts of cash are involved. On the other hand, there are some large floating rocks that we and Turkey fight over. No one cares about their names, and some of them have the perfect size for a hotel. I'll have to make note of that. Good way to make more money if I ever become rich.

The talks were initiated when the mayor of a small island nobody had ever heard of before utilized a loophole in the current civil marriage legislation to marry a few gay couples. They were very quick to close that loophole.

Isn't he taking his case to the court of European Human Rights? He seemed more than keen to take on Karamalis (and Papandreou since lets not kid ourselves if PAOK were in power they'd react the same way as ND) last time I read the story.

I did say the socialists were against it, didn't I? The only party to openly and unanimously support him was SYRIZA (Coalition of Radical Left), and I suspect that's one of the reasons it sunk in the Euroelections. He did take the case to the European court, but I don't expect much to come out of it. Even if the court rules in his favour, the government will just pay the fine and keep everything in the legislation the same. The Church is far too powerful to piss off, especially with elections looming next year.

This shouldn't come as a huge surprise. Albanian men do not seem to genuinely like their women, based on the way they treat them:

http://genderindex.org/country/albania

Perhaps they're like the Spartans, and they think women are for breeding, but other men are for loving.

Heh. I've met quite a few Albanian immigrants, and that's something I really wouldn't like to say to their face. I happen to value the integrity of mine.

[Darth Wong]

This shouldn't come as a huge surprise. Albanian men do not seem to genuinely like their women, based on the way they treat them:

http://genderindex.org/country/albania

Perhaps they're like the Spartans, and they think women are for breeding, but other men are for loving.

Heh. I've met quite a few Albanian immigrants, and that's something I really wouldn't like to say to their face. I happen to value the integrity of mine.

Misogynistic self-consciously macho idiots who are also belligerent? No way!

[J]

Misogynistic self-consciously macho idiots who are also belligerent? No way!

Tie Domi is of Albanian descent. I rest my case.

[Narkis]

This shouldn't come as a huge surprise. Albanian men do not seem to genuinely like their women, based on the way they treat them:

http://genderindex.org/country/albania

Perhaps they're like the Spartans, and they think women are for breeding, but other men are for loving.

Heh. I've met quite a few Albanian immigrants, and that's something I really wouldn't like to say to their face. I happen to value the integrity of mine.

Misogynistic self-consciously macho idiots who are also belligerent? No way!

I know it sounds crazy, but it's true! I swear to my ancestors' marbles!

And Tie Domi? There's no board member with that name, is there?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I know it sounds crazy, but it's true! I swear to my ancestors' marbles!

And Tie Domi? There's no board member with that name, is there?

Some googling explained to me that Tahir "Tie" Domi is the name of an incredibly violent "Enforcer" (someone whose job on the team is to get into fights, basically) in the incredibly violent sport of Canadian Hockey best typified by the song "Hit Somebody" by Warren Zevon.

[Darth Wong]

Hilarious Tie Domi sucker punch:


I'm sorry to say it but while I don't like the glorification of hockey violence on an intellectual level, I have to say that ... well, just try going to a hockey game yourself sometime. When you see two guys drop the gloves and square off, you will stand up, you will get excited, and if you dislike one of the players, you will want to see him go down.

[aerius]

Some googling explained to me that Tahir "Tie" Domi is the name of an incredibly violent "Enforcer" (someone whose job on the team is to get into fights, basically) in the incredibly violent sport of Canadian Hockey best typified by the song "Hit Somebody" by Warren Zevon.

Hockey isn't that bad, the violence is incidental to the game unlike say, Pride Fighting Championships where the object of the sport is to beat your opponent into a bloody pulp.