Another public breastfeeding story

[Next of Kin]

SancheztheWhaler- Speak for yourself on whether or not you, as a man, know anything about breastfeeding.

No, we should all listen to Sanchez the douchebag. He's a real man and real men "know nothing" about and don't make a fuss about raising a child. That is strictly the women's job.

[Shroom Man 777]

In a society wherein breastfeeding has social stigma, Cairb is right, a supportive partner would help a nursing mother. Raising children, especially in the months after delivering, isn't especially easy. There's stuff like postpartum depression (and psychosis!) and stuff to consider.

[Themightytom]

You should put together a strong leaflet campaign.

I would do nothing of the kind as evidenced by the kind of right-wing, puritan people that wrote the comments. Very little, save biblical proof that breasfeeding is better, would sway their opinions.

What about just a T shirt:

WWJD: Drink Boobmilk.

[Big Phil]

SancheztheWhaler- Speak for yourself on whether or not you, as a man, know anything about breastfeeding. I know plenty of men who are quite educated on the subject. In fact, one of the biggest things we try and do when working with moms is to bring their partner into the fold. A supportive and knowledgeable partner can be the difference between one week and one year of breastfeeding.

And I think partners need to be more vocal and supportive about breastfeeding.

Did you know that breastfeeding is associated with a 59% risk reduction for breast cancer in those with relatives who have had the disease?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/healt ... ancer.html

Just another reason why partners need to get involved.

What exactly is your point - do you just want to bitch at someone, or do you take issue with my wife being unable to breastfeed? Because she certainly tried and simply couldn't produce enough milk - it wasn't a choice, she physically couldn't produce enough milk. Are you unable to read? And what's this BS about "partners need to be more vocal and supportive about breastfeeding?" Why exactly did you feel the need to add that line in in response to my post? I don't recall saying anything about not being supportive or vocal - perhaps you should read a little more closely.

You're actually sounding quite a bit like those pro-breastfeeding bitches who act as though a women unable to breastfeed is not completely a woman. I did have to deal with a few of those during the first year, and did tell several of them to go fuck themselves. Should I add you to the list, or are you being a self-righteous fuck for some other reason?

I suppose posting in response to Broomstick's post and then pointing out the silliness of men getting irate on either side of the issue is completely out of line; clearly all the fatty nerds in here are so enlightened that they too feel they can weigh in and join the self-righteous pro-breastfeeding people in condemning all women who don't, regardless of the reason. How wonderful...

[Big Phil]

SancheztheWhaler- Speak for yourself on whether or not you, as a man, know anything about breastfeeding.

No, we should all listen to Sanchez the douchebag. He's a real man and real men "know nothing" about and don't make a fuss about raising a child. That is strictly the women's job.

Hey, virgin, go fuck yourself. I've been my son's primary caregiver for the first two years of his life, mostly because my work schedule has been much more flexible than my wife's. I get up with him in the night, I take him to the doctor, I put him to bed at night while my wife is in school. But no, fatty internet virgin has spoken. Clearly I'm a sexist asshole... go fuck yourself shit for brains.

In a society wherein breastfeeding has social stigma, Cairb is right, a supportive partner would help a nursing mother. Raising children, especially in the months after delivering, isn't especially easy. There's stuff like postpartum depression (and psychosis!) and stuff to consider.

Has anyone actually been arguing to the contrary, or are you arguing a strawman as well? Who here has actually posted that partners should be distant, unsupporting, and leave all of the child rearing to the mother?

[Ohma]

Who here has actually posted that partners should be distant, unsupporting, and leave all of the child rearing to the mother?

Well it was strongly implied when you said:

My wife couldn't breastfeed, as in she couldn't physically produce enough milk, but our son is a strong, healthy, allergy free toddler. I'm always surprised by how self righteous some men get regarding issues they know nothing about. I don't see the fuss, myself.

Which pretty much read to me and I would assume every one else you're pissy at now as "I can't believe you MEN (in allcaps and flashing red) dare to have an opinion on this issue! I don't care myself (and apparently miss the irony in posting about self righteous MEN having opinions about this in the first place)."

I would assume that most people thought you had meant that because generally when someone says what you did, they mean what I wrote. I would also ask what exactly you did mean if it wasn't what I wrote. You know, instead of throwing a massive hissy fit because people aren't psychic.

[Buritot]

We're men, however I didn't think I was being Indignant, however being a bit brain damaged It might have come across that way. Oh and for the record, I lack the enzymes to handle beef because my mom's alergic to it.

Wait. You can't eat beef? As in, no meat coming from cows, bulls and bovine animals in general? Could you point me to a site? Google is my friend.

Ah, Sanchez. Please don't take this the wrong way. Please read your post another time, now with a mindset of one pro-breastfeeding.

My wife couldn't breastfeed, as in she couldn't physically produce enough milk, but our son is a strong, healthy, allergy free toddler. I'm always surprised by how self righteous some men get regarding issues they know nothing about. I don't see the fuss, myself.

It might be the way it is written, but I CAN see your post defending formula-feeding.
It is probably a misunderstanding on both sides. The post was kind of ambiguous, and the others latched onto the wrong side of the ambiguity. It happens.

I for one don't see any problem with either. I consider breastfeeding closer to nature and would support it, but I wouldn't ever discard formula as a means to feed the little suckers. Please take into consideration formula hadn't been invented to avoid breast feeding, but rather to supplement it.

Edit: Dammit, Ohma beat me to it.

[Shroom Man 777]

Has anyone actually been arguing to the contrary, or are you arguing a strawman as well? Who here has actually posted that partners should be distant, unsupporting, and leave all of the child rearing to the mother?

Was I even arguing anything? Maybe it might have seemed that I was arguing a strawman, if you were projecting yourself into a menstruating strawman who was getting argued at by me, but I wasn't. I was just concurring with what Cairb said about partners supporting each other. If you feel like menstruating or bleeding your non-lactating man titties at a post that wasn't directed at you, then whatever.

My previous posts also mentioned shit about breastfeeding education being important to discourage impoverished and uneducated mothers from feeding their children formulas that are often improperly formulated and diluted just to increase the volume. Has anyone actually been arguing to the contrary, or am I arguing a breast-bleeding lactating strawman as well? Who here has actually posted that mothers should dilute their formula because they're too poor to afford milk for their children and are illiterate to the point that when their children grow up, they'll become malnourished stomach-bloated shitpieces?

Nope. No one.

I brought it up for the sake of discussion, since I thought that since this was a breastfeeding topic we could discuss topics that are about breasteeding - as opposed to topics dealing specifically about Dirty Whaling Sanchezes or whatever other lactating or non-lactating issues there are. European members brought up breastfeeding issues from their lands (or, rather, breastfeeding NON-issues). Why can't I also share amusing anecdotes from my native Third World Philippine shithole about illiterate mothers malnourishing their children through dumb and deadly dietary decisions (like diluted milk at infancy, and then protein-deficient soups at childhood)?

But, I don't know, I was just idly discussing shit, I wasn't expecting to get myself into some histrionic internet argument between morbidly obese FAT FAT FAT nerds and righteously indignant daddies over a topic dealing with lactating titties and goddamn baby food. I thought I was contributing to a discussion that's about breasts that bleed blood from the milkbags, which is a fascinating subject.

Anyway, my previous posts have had me saying that I think it's okay for women to formula feed if they can't breastfeed, because they have legitimate reasons to do so. But since breastfeeding is healthier, then society should still ideally promote the healthier option as the first choice (rather than stigmatizing perfectly natural stuff like breastbleedingfeeding or tittysucking) - while also educating the misinformed or uninformed. Why are we even arguing this?

[Cairber]

Why exactly did you feel the need to add that line in in response to my post? I don't recall saying anything about not being supportive or vocal - perhaps you should read a little more closely.

You questioned why some men should get involved in the debate when they know nothing about the subject. I, on the other hand, feel men are necessary to the debate, especially partners. They need to be there to support breastfeeding mothers.

I think you are the one that needs to read a bit more closely. Where did I attack your wife? You sound like those people who feel kinda guilty and try to brush it off by attacking people are trying their best to help moms out.

People like that tend to try and write us off as "breastfeeding nazis" or the like (though I admit "breasfeeding bitch" is a new one. high five for that piece of brilliance )

I suppose posting in response to Broomstick's post and then pointing out the silliness of men getting irate on either side of the issue is completely out of line

I think it is ridiculous for someone to think that men should not get involved. Men should be irate when people attack breastfeeding mothers. Men should be upset when the rights of their partner's and their children are violated. tell me how it is not sexist to say that men should just stay out of the argument? why do you feel that way?

clearly all the fatty nerds in here are so enlightened that they too feel they can weigh in and join the self-righteous pro-breastfeeding people in condemning all women who don't, regardless of the reason. How wonderful

I cannot tell if you are just mindlessly babbling or if you are accusing me of being against women who cannot breastfeed. If the latter, please show me where I condemn all women who cannot breastfeed, go ahead and search every post I've made on this subject. I dare you to prove your accusation. let's see it. Show me where I even say one negative thing about those unable to breastfeed.

[Cairber]

Which pretty much read to me and I would assume every one else you're pissy at now as "I can't believe you MEN (in allcaps and flashing red) dare to have an opinion on this issue! I don't care myself (and apparently miss the irony in posting about self righteous MEN having opinions about this in the first place)."

I would assume that most people thought you had meant that because generally when someone says what you did, they mean what I wrote. I would also ask what exactly you did mean if it wasn't what I wrote. You know, instead of throwing a massive hissy fit because people aren't psychic.

Yes, this is how I read it. Perhaps we are all wrong about how it was suppose to be read. But instead of clarifying, he seems to have made it seem even more like he is telling men to stay out of the debate:

I suppose posting in response to Broomstick's post and then pointing out the silliness of men getting irate on either side of the issue is completely out of line; clearly all the fatty nerds in here are so enlightened that they too feel they can weigh in and join the self-righteous pro-breastfeeding people in condemning all women who don't, regardless of the reason. How wonderful...

emphasis mine.

[Big Phil]

It might be the way it is written, but I CAN see your post defending formula-feeding.
It is probably a misunderstanding on both sides. The post was kind of ambiguous, and the others latched onto the wrong side of the ambiguity. It happens.

I for one don't see any problem with either. I consider breastfeeding closer to nature and would support it, but I wouldn't ever discard formula as a means to feed the little suckers. Please take into consideration formula hadn't been invented to avoid breast feeding, but rather to supplement it.

Edit: Dammit, Ohma beat me to it.

Clearly there was a misunderstanding; I'm not arguing people can't have opinions, but the tone of many of the (male) opinions here is that anything other than breastfeeding is practically child neglect, which is simply ridiculous (before anyone freaks out, I'm using dramatic license, so relax). Broomstick pointed out that formula is sometimes appropriate, I threw in my two cents, and Next of Kin accused me of misogyny.

[Next of Kin]

I've been my son's primary caregiver for the first two years of his life, mostly because my work schedule has been much more flexible than my wife's. I get up with him in the night, I take him to the doctor, I put him to bed at night while my wife is in school. But no, fatty internet virgin has spoken. Clearly I'm a sexist asshole... go fuck yourself shit for brains.

You are quite the dumbass, Sanchez. I could give a flying fuck about what you do at home. You've marched into this thread and read about the benefits of breastfeeding and then got all pissy that your wife bottle fed. The point is, shit for brains, that no one is going after bottle feeding. If a women has to bottlefeed then good for her! I do feel sorry for your son though...having a piece of shit father such as yourself.

[Big Phil]

Hey Cairber...

the fact that I was sick so much as a child is probably at least partly due to the fact that my mom didn't want to deal with the hassle of feeding her kid properly. Awesome.

I was also formula fed, and I never had childhood illnesses... could I similarly argue that my lack of sickness was due to formula? Perhaps I should bash my mother for not loving me enough to breastfeed? Or perhaps she didn't breastfeed because I had colic and could only take soy formula... no... my mother's a selfish bitch, just like Losonti's...

Do you understand my irritation with the tone of some posts, and why I think some of the guys here should really shut the fuck up?

[Big Phil]

I've been my son's primary caregiver for the first two years of his life, mostly because my work schedule has been much more flexible than my wife's. I get up with him in the night, I take him to the doctor, I put him to bed at night while my wife is in school. But no, fatty internet virgin has spoken. Clearly I'm a sexist asshole... go fuck yourself shit for brains.

You are quite the dumbass, Sanchez. I could give a flying fuck about what you do at home. You've marched into this thread and read about the benefits of breastfeeding and then got all pissy that your wife bottle fed. The point is, shit for brains, that no one is going after bottle feeding. If a women has to bottlefeed then good for her! I do feel sorry for your son though...having a piece of shit father such as yourself.

Oooh... I hit too close to the mark, didn't I? I'll let my son know that Next of Kin thinks I'm a piece of shit... I'm not sure he'll understand the concept of fatty Internet nerds posting shit to feel important, but someday he'll understand. Until then, I'll just make sure I "don't make a fuss about raising a child" as "that is strictly the women's job."

Thanks for the parenting advice, dildo

[Cairber]

Clearly there was a misunderstanding; I'm not arguing people can't have opinions, but the tone of many of the (male) opinions here is that anything other than breastfeeding is practically child neglect, which is simply ridiculous (before anyone freaks out, I'm using dramatic license, so relax). Broomstick pointed out that formula is sometimes appropriate, I threw in my two cents, and Next of Kin accused me of misogyny.

I think the thing is that you seemed to say men should stay out of it and that it is silly for them to get upset on either side of the issue. I am not sure how to interpret that any other way besides what has been read here.

For the record, in case it is not completely obvious, I think all women have the choice of how their infants will be fed, but I feel that society has a moral obligation to educate and support breastfeeding anywhere and everywhere. I feel all sexes, all races, all socioeconomic statuses need to be involved because everyone benefits. I feel formula companies have too much influence over policy and practice, leading to misleading information and lack of education.

WHen there are complications with breastfeeding, I envision a world where they are supported through multiple 'troubleshooting' phases and that the formula advice to 'totally wean to formula' is the last option out there (and NOT the one initially supported by the medical people involved). Help for the problem should come first. If the problem persists, partial breastfeeding with the help of formula should be encouraged (unlike the usual 'total wean' approach). IN a case like your wife's, I would hope that partial nursing with supplemental formula would be the 'go-to.' we know, from multiple studies, that even one breastfeeding session a day has numerous benefits to mother and baby.

Is this nazi breastfeeding bitch stuff? some people think so. Some people think that, if you work to solve the problem and give advice outside of the mainsteam 'total wean to formula' instead of bowing down and patting on the back 'it's ok, you tried' then you are evil, bitchy, controlling and anti-woman. I just don't agree with this. I am not saying YOU personally feel this, but it is part of what I experience when I try to stand up for women (and their partners).

[Cairber]

I was also formula fed, and I never had childhood illnesses... could I similarly argue that my lack of sickness was due to formula? Perhaps I should bash my mother for not loving me enough to breastfeed? Or perhaps she didn't breastfeed because I had colic and could only take soy formula... no... my mother's a selfish bitch, just like Losonti's...

Do you understand my irritation with the tone of some posts, and why I think some of the guys here should really shut the fuck up?

In the case of something like you describe here, the mother can change her diet to help the situation. Colic can sometimes be used as a catch-all term. If you are saying that you had some kind of lactose issue that could only be solved with soy formula, then I have lots of information that needs to get out on that subject. True problems like this are rare, while misinterpretations lead to far more people getting the advice your mother seemed to have gotten. We need to work against that kind of misinformation.

http://kellymom.com/newman/02colic_in_bf_baby.html

http://kellymom.com/babyconcerns/food-sensitivity.html ( i have more if you are actually interested )

This is not to say that you were not one of those few who truly could not be breastfed. But, it is kinda like when doctors tell women they need Csections because their baby is too large. Research shows that the recommendation far outpaces the actual existence of such situations.

I think it is a tough subject when a mom who is able to breastfeed chooses not to. There are facts that need to be accepted. Breastfeeding saves lives, even in developed countries. Moms who chose not to breastfeed will have increased risks of certain cancers as well as diabetes and rheumatoid arthritis. children who are not breastfed will have increased risk of ear infections, respiratory infections, certain cancers and diabetes (to name a few). I won't sugar coat it. If you can breastfeed and you choose not to, you are creating an increased risk for certain things.

That said, it is every woman's choice, and we just need to work to make sure the education and opportunities are out there.

[Next of Kin]

I think the thing is that you seemed to say men should stay out of it and that it is silly for them to get upset on either side of the issue. I am not sure how to interpret that any other way besides what has been read here.

That's how I interpreted his post. Of course, Sanchez went off the deep-end when called on his nonsense. Sanchez, that's great that your wife had to bottlefeed and no one is going to get all self righteous about it. She had to do what she had to do.

[Big Phil]

snip

Agreed

That's how I interpreted his post. Of course, Sanchez went off the deep-end when called on his nonsense. Sanchez, that's great that your wife had to bottlefeed and no one is going to get all self righteous about it. She had to do what she had to do.

Fuck off twat...

[Darth Wong]

My wife couldn't breastfeed, as in she couldn't physically produce enough milk, but our son is a strong, healthy, allergy free toddler.

As long as you're using this particular form of evidence, perhaps you also have an elderly grandmother who chain-smoked cigarettes her entire life and lived to be 93 years old without ever having cancer.

I'm always surprised by how self righteous some men get regarding issues they know nothing about.

Men are somehow incapable of reading the voluminous number of available articles from credible sources on the health benefits of breastfeeding?

I don't see the fuss, myself.

Ah yes, the appeal to personal opinion. Always an unassailable argument.

Look, no one is saying your wife must be a horrible person if she didn't breastfeed the kid. Maybe she has health issues that prevented it. But this appeal to personal anecdote of yours is retarded. All health issues are a matter of playing odds. Some people can do the right thing with bad results, others can do the wrong thing with good results. Some people have no choice, as perhaps your wife did not. But that's immaterial to this discussion, which is about the attitudes about breastfeeding which come from deranged sexual puritans.

[Next of Kin]

In fact, one of the biggest things we try and do when working with moms is to bring their partner into the fold. A supportive and knowledgeable partner can be the difference between one week and one year of breastfeeding.

After our son was born I found the hospital's nurses to be quite supportive in showing my wife how to breast feed. Her supply didn't come in right away so we needed supplement with formula at first. The nurses showed me things I could do right away like cup and finger feeding. After our stay in the hospital we went to see a lactation consultant; they were quite positive and helpful. Eventually my wife's supply came in and she breastfed for a good 10 months! I think had we had not made use of the support clinics (which are free in Canada btw) we would have given up and used formula.

[Darth Wong]

It's one of those correlative factors. A woman who formula-feeds is not necessarily a lazy mother. However, a lazy mother will formula-feed, because it is easier. It is less strain on her body, she does not have to learn a new skill, she can more easily delegate the task to others, and the baby is sleepier so it's easier to take care of.

[The Yosemite Bear]

yes, because my mom is allergic to beef, chicken, and pork, I just can't digest it, and I'm lactose intolerant, so it was either breast feeding for me, or I would throw it up.

now as an adult, I do enjoy cheese, it's hard for me to digest but I do enjoy it, I can't digest beef, or pork, so It tears me a new one, and burns comming out my arse.