Private Healthcare Horror stories from NOT the US.

[Darth Wong]

Just how many insurers do you need in order to have a competitive environment, then? How is it that you can get fierce competition between a dozen major car manufacturers while you apparently need vast swarms of health insurers to get competition?

[charlemagne]

The most "horror" my stories get is how hospitals try to keep you in longer than needed to milk more money from the insurance company. Like a couple of months ago when my grandmother needed some tests done because of minor heart problems, they admitted her on a Thursday, fully knowing that those tests wouldn't get done before next Tuesday, so she had to stay in the hospital those extra days without any real need.

[bobalot]

Nor does Chocula address how exactly it will stop these health insurance horror stories. Horror stories like "rape being a pre-existing condition" happen because it is profitable to act in such an unethical manner, not because of lack of regulations.

And he doesn't need to address it since he's not giving a comprehensive review of the health care system, he is only commenting on the formation of de facto cartels and how it's hurting the health care industry.

This is a thread about "private healthcare horror stories", Chocula elaborated on a point about cartels hurting the industry. I'm assuming he's implying that cartel like behaviour is the cause of these horror stories (otherwise why make that post in this thread at all?). I'm also assuming the point he is making is that because a lot of the insurers in the U.S are effective monopolies or oligopolies, there is no incentive to strive to provide better service.

He hasn't provided any evidence that this is the case. It is an assumption it is merely a lack of "true competition" that makes health insurance companies treat people like shit whenever possible.

They treat people like crap whenever possible, because it is currently profitable to do so. I'm quite sure that Germany (like Switzerland) has regulations against excluding people on their pre-existing conditions or the many shenanigans that you see occurring the U.S system.

Surely, they are more responsible (than a perceived lack of competition) for the superiority of their system over the U.S system?

[Ford Prefect]

Y'all are doing this just to piss us Americans off, right?

I find it really sad that, in a thread ostensibly about poor experiences with healthcare outside the US, the topic rapidly shifted to how healthcare is terrible in the US. All the examples are pretty much mild inconveniences such as how public healthcare might not cover you on holiday, while at the same time an American coldn't even manage to get his broken big toe seen to. That's disgusting. And a significant number, at least from my impression of things, thinks this is okay. I don't even know how to respond to that. This might seem redundant, but seriously, what the fuck, America.

[Xon]

While I have never had a bad experience with health care (I've only had to go to the doctor once), my dad needed a couple of teeth pulled. He was on a waiting list for a couple of years before he finally got to see a dentist, at which point he was in the chair for something like ten minutes. The next time he had trouble he just pulled the offending tooth out with his bare hands.

Wait, dentists have queues?

I thought you booked an appointment at a time you where happy with (generally within a week) and then rocked up. After you provide private medical insurance details and walk away.

[Ford Prefect]

My dad doesn't have private medical insurance. Do you remember all the media coverage about huge waiting lists about seven or eight years ago? It was around then when he needed to get his teeth out.

[Norseman]

Wait, dentists have queues?

I thought you booked an appointment at a time you where happy with (generally within a week) and then rocked up. After you provide private medical insurance details and walk away.

In Norway dentistry is not covered by the national healthcare plan, except in certain circumstances, though the rates are kept fairly reasonable. Nevertheless I would be astounded if I could get a dentist session for a non-emergency operation within less than two weeks.

[Xon]

My dad doesn't have private medical insurance. Do you remember all the media coverage about huge waiting lists about seven or eight years ago? It was around then when he needed to get his teeth out.

Ah, that would explain it. Private healthcare is quite cheap tho.

In Norway dentistry is not covered by the national healthcare plan, except in certain circumstances, though the rates are kept fairly reasonable.

Most dentistal work isn't covered under public healthcare in Australia either.

Nevertheless I would be astounded if I could get a dentist session for a non-emergency operation within less than two weeks.

I work in the central business district of Perth, there is something like a dozen dentists within 5-10 minutes of each other. Either via free pubic transport(CBD is a free transit zone, which is awesome) or walking distance. This may be colouring my perspective, especially since I can walk to a dentist within 5 minutes from my place of work.

[salm]

Dentists can be annoying. Some things are not covered by the public insurance and it can get very expensive. I had to get a root cannal operation last year and because it was the backmost tooth in my mouth it was considered expendable. The public insurance only payed the cost of what a removal would have cost so i had to shell out 400 bucks.
Private insurances probably cover that but i´m not sure.

As for waiting lists for dentists: You usually just make an appointment and get one a week or two later. If you´re in pain you get one the same day or the next day even if you only have public insurance.

[Dahak]

It gets very expensive if you need dental replacements, which can run into several thousand Euros and are not completely covered by public insurance. A reason why many people have an additional insurance for just that.

[PainRack]

A couple here had Medishield, the government run medical insurance deny payment for certain care for their baby with a cogenital defect, requesting them to cover it from out of pocket.......

Its interesting though since its a new brand of paperwork idiocy ever since the government FINALLY fixed the "females can't extend medical benefits to their families". You see, our government run insurance system, is an opt in system where you can pay for the premiums out of a "health savings" account(Medisave) funded by government mandated enforced savings. The schemes are deliberately limited in scope. Medisave is to be used for hospitalisation only, Medishield is a insurance scheme that pays up to 80% of the bill once you cross a certain threshold.

So, sometime back in 2008, the government realised this meant that children had no medical insurance. So, kids were covered under this scheme(with their premiums) out of their parents Medishield.... And they included the outright disclaimer- No congenital diseases covered. IIRC, another issue was because of the couple financial status, they were denied C class subsidised rates, having to pay the higher B2 rates instead.

There's also the technocrat policy goals. Our Health Minister has outright stated that he had to balance two worries, the health of our patients vs the money in their Medisave account being sufficient for old age. To anybody with an IQ more than 80, its obvious that money in the bank is worthless when your lifespan and quality of life is reduced because you couldn't afford non hospital medical bills. And of course, prevention is better than cure, so spending more money on chronic disease care before it escalated to a disease that required hospitalisation WILL save more money and improve quality of life. Yet, he supposedly was in agony as he worried between the benefits of allowing people to use Medisave for Chronic disease management such as Diabetes and Hypertension, fearing that their money will run out.

[Darth Wong]

That sounds like one of the types of universal health care schemes the Republicans were trying to push, with opt-in systems funded out of "health savings accounts".

[bobalot]

Ford Prefect, in which country's system did your father have to wait years for dentistry?

[weemadando]

I've never had to wait for dentistry - it's so cheap for "extras" cover through most Insurers that there is really no reason why anyone with a job shouldn't at least have that. Hell, I had extras cover when I was on the dole.

[PainRack]

That sounds like one of the types of universal health care schemes the Republicans were trying to push, with opt-in systems funded out of "health savings accounts".

Not sure about Republicans, but it certainly is one of the conservatives/neoliberals platform. In their opinion, health saving accounts "encourage" control and intelligent consumption of healthcare, by being aware of the costs because of the high co-payments and deductibles, you're in control.

I DID make a mistake though.... It should had been opt out. I'm not sure why I wrote opt-in in my post.
Also, technically, Medishield pays 80%-90% of the bill, and not up to 80%, once that threshold is reached(IIRC, 1k). Then again, not everything in the hospital is claimable via Medishield.

We're just better off in the sense that Medishield covers everyone who is working. You can't be denied insurance, although there are specific treatments which aren't covered. One of the exceptions is the case I noted.

Insofar as I know though, there isn't any insurance scheme here, government or private in Singapore that covers the role of the HMO or PPO, so routine outpatient costs are covered out of pocket.
The gatekeeper system is also hopelessly flawed IMHO....... here to hoping the records integration in 2012 sorts this shit out.

[Ford Prefect]

Ford Prefect, in which country's system did your father have to wait years for dentistry?

Queensland. Technically Queensland is a part of Australia, but sometimes I wonder.