Bosnia - RS situation coming to a head

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Netko
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Bosnia - RS situation coming to a head

Post by Netko »

Sabre-rattling between Croatia and Serbia over Bosnia intensifies wrote:Sabre-rattling between Croatia and Serbia over Bosnia intensifies
Rise in vitriol between Balkan nations over future of region harks back to bloody conflicts of the 1990s

Leaders of the former Yugoslavia traded hostile invective that recalled the wars of the 1990s today after Croatia's president threatened armed intervention to halt any Serbian attempts to partition Bosnia.

Milorad Dodik, the prime minister of the Serbian half of Bosnia, accused the Croatian leader, Stipe Mesic, of warmongering after a blunt warning from Zagreb.

"If Milorad Dodik scheduled a referendum for secession … I would send the army," Mesic said, adding that he would "break the Bosnian Serb region in half". Mesic's threat also triggered a strong response in the Serbian capital, Belgrade.

The war of words erupted as Bosnia prepares for elections later this year, which diplomats and analysts expect to be marked by angry and destabilising nationalism on all sides.

Dodik is determined to keep Bosnia as ethnically divided as possible and is resisting all international attempts to forge a more functional state and establish central government authority. He regularly threatens to stage a direct vote on secession from Bosnia.

Mesic, who is to stand down after a decade as Croatian president next month, accused the Bosnian Serb leader of seeking to revive the failed Serbian policies of a decade ago aimed at establishing a "Greater Serbia".

Dodik is fighting a political war of attrition with the international powers who still control Bosnia and enjoy last-resort powers, nearly 15 years after the end of the war there.

"Dodik believes that the world will tire of Bosnia and that he will schedule a referendum then … and then the dream of a Greater Serbia will finally be fulfilled," Mesic told journalists in Zagreb.

The Serbian half of Bosnia is split in two and connected by a narrow corridor that runs along the River Sava on the border with Croatia. Mesic said he could send Croat forces to the choke point. A referendum would result not in a Serbian breakaway, but in the destruction of the Serbian half of Bosnia, the Croatian president predicted.

A senior government official in Belgrade, Borislav Stefanovic, reacted angrily, declaring that Mesic's "moral and political authority is at almost zero".

Dodik said the Croatian leader was "radical and extreme" and accused him of warmongering after playing a key role in the wars of the 90s. Mesic was the last president of Yugoslavia before it collapsed in bloodshed in 1991.

"This is a disturbing threat by a man who started his political career with a war and now wants to end it with a war," Dodik said. "It is a classic call to war."

Few observers expect Bosnia to slip into a repeat of its 1992-95 war, but the verbal fisticuffs in recent days is the most aggressive for years. The country is dysfunctional and its ethnic division entrenched, generating gloom about its European integration prospects in Brussels.

Lady Ashton, the EU's new foreign policy chief, has singled Bosnia out as the most unstable corner of Europe.
As has been noted previously here, the Dayton Accords are not working and Bosnia is getting more dysfunctional every day. Some of my friends that visit family there regularly note that the situation is really deteriorating - it had reached a relatively stable place in the early 2000s (which was a reason for scaling down international involvement back then), but in recent years, things are getting tense again. The main actor is, of course, Dodik, who is no longer even pretending not to have separatist intentions in the face of compromise solutions that everyone else is more or less willing to accept. The main one being a cantonisation proposal based on the Swiss model and the success of Brčko District. It's an intentionally absurd situation - reform is clearly needed, because the government and bureaucracies at the federal level (FBiH, RS and, practically, the Brčko District being entities) is completely non-functional by almost any metric do to having to deal with intentionally castrating solutions enshrined in Dayton (rotating presidency, ethnic quotas, etc.), and yet RS is blocking reform because it would have to compromise some of its absurd "rights" to make a functional state (its currently practically a state-within-a-state, which would obviously have to change) but is at the same time stoking independence ambitions among the populace by pointing at the dysfunctionality of the federal government (a bit of an unfortunate term since the Federation of BiH is an entity of BiH, but here I'm using it to refer to the "overall" government).

As for Mesić's comments. The military side of the question is clear - OSRH (Croatian Armed Forces) have the capability, equipment and experience to do what's needed. However, the political and economic sides would be disastrous - massive losses in the tourism sector, much higher costs of financing, if EU accession is not achieved by the time this comes to a head, a practical indefinite postponement of that, etc. As that is pretty much clear to everyone, the public support for his comments in Croatia is lukewarm at best - on the one hand, nobody is willing to pay the price, especially after all the troubles of our own in the '90ies, on the other hand, letting RS separate and likely join Serbia is strategically completely unacceptable to Croatia - it would cause a complete disintegration of Bosnia which would leave Croatia with an unacceptable geographic situation (Serbia, once RS joins it, "filling" Croatia's "horseshoe"), unacceptable political situation (Bosnian Croats are already being marginalised in the joint Bosniak-Croat FBiH and are increasingly having separatist feelings of their own, despite Croatia exerting maximum pressure for them to integrate - if RS leaves Bosnia, its generally felt that they would themselves declare some sort of separate state, despite Zagreb's wishes to the contrary, which would likely also lead to a radicalisation of the Bosniaks who normally represent one of the most moderate Muslim populations around - and nobody wants to see a Middle-eastern influenced Bosnia that would emerge from that - they've been very diligent in combating various Wahabbist "volunteer" influences from the previous war, however that could easily change in such a charged situation), plus it being unacceptable for historical reasons (RS being built on actions like the Srebrenica genocide and other war crimes).

Blah, what a mess.

As ineffectual as it might be, the international community (and by that I mean the Great Powers) must turn their focus back on Bosnia relatively soon, or things there could spiral out of control, again.

It should also be noted that this is the best English article I could find on the subject. It still omits a lot of information circulating locally. The most important is probably that it is generally considered that this isn't a solo adventure by Mesić, but rather a message from NATO to Dodik through a channel that can be used for that purpose (Mesić is stepping down as president in February and so is politically expendable and as a source below the radar enough not to get mainstream attention in the west, compared to NATO, the US, EU or any EU member making a similar statement). Dodik's statements on Mesić are also ridiculous to anyone with any knowledge of his role in Yugoslavia's breakup.
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Re: Bosnia - RS situation coming to a head

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Is there a reason why the Bosnian Serbs and the Bosnian Croats have to live in a unified country? If it'll make them happier and less likely to kill each other to live in two separate countries (or join Serbia and Croatia respectively), why not let them do it?
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Re: Bosnia - RS situation coming to a head

Post by Psychic_Sandwich »

What's the perception of the people living in RP itself to the idea of reformed federal government? It seems fairly obvious that if they don't want it, then it's not going to work; they form too large a proportion of the population to be forced into compliance like the Serbs in Kosovo, not if you want a functional nation left afterwards.
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Re: Bosnia - RS situation coming to a head

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If the Croatians move in to prevent secession it'll be atrocity central, just like last time. And then Serbia proper can intervene, and we can have a big ole 1990s reunion. And then NATO can fall all over itself embarassingly trying to explain why RS shouldn't be able to secede, just like Kosovo.
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Re: Bosnia - RS situation coming to a head

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SancheztheWhaler wrote:Is there a reason why the Bosnian Serbs and the Bosnian Croats have to live in a unified country? If it'll make them happier and less likely to kill each other to live in two separate countries (or join Serbia and Croatia respectively), why not let them do it?
For one thing, there is the general international stance on redrawing borders being a taboo (note all the drama regarding Kosovo in that regard). Secondly, it sets a truly appalling precedent - Republika Srpska is basically the area Bosnian Serbs ethnically cleansed/genocided back in the '90ies - before the war, most of it was ethnically mixed, while today (besides having a depressed population) it is extremely majority Serb - again, setting the idea out there that you can get an ethnically clean sovereign state for your people by genocide is not a precedent that the international community wants out there. Thirdly, as noted in my earlier post, it would lead to an absurdly destabilised region. Croatia doesn't want to absorb whatever Bosnian Croat statelet emerges, and it would be an economical wasteland without Croatian support. Serbia isn't as absolutist as that with regards to Republika Srpska, but the more cooler heads there also don't want the baggage - and if they do integrate it, it would lead to horrible tensions with Croatia who gets a strategic threat with such an absorption. The Bosniaks, of course, in all of this feel (legitimately IMHO) betrayed and wounded, easily leading to a somewhat radicalised Muslim state in the middle of Europe. The entire region automatically gets blocked from NATO/EU accession (aside from Croatia in NATO, EU if it manages to get in before the shit hits the fan) for the indeterminate future - something which means there are no absolutely necessary economic, bureaucratic and justice reforms since they mostly happen as a necessity of that European perspective that the population actually wants as it is in their best interest again leading to an absolute black hole in the middle of Europe.

There really aren't any upsides aside from Bosnian Serbs and Croats, to a lesser extent, getting their idiotic nationalistic dreams fulfilled from allowing RS to secede.
Vympel wrote:If the Croatians move in to prevent secession it'll be atrocity central, just like last time. And then Serbia proper can intervene, and we can have a big ole 1990s reunion. And then NATO can fall all over itself embarassingly trying to explain why RS shouldn't be able to secede, just like Kosovo.
Negative on the atrocities - OSRH are a modern professional force (conscription was abolished in 2008, and was essentially just going through the motions for a good number of years before that) completing a transition to NATO standard, successfully participating in ISAF and other international peacekeeping operations and you can bet, in the very unlikely event of this actually coming to pass - the article is correct that any military action actually happening is very unlikely - they would get very specific orders about war crimes precisely because of this simplistic perception. And Croatian forces (especially those from Croatia proper) never did do any "atrocity central" (not that there weren't war crimes, but "atrocity central" suggests something like what the Serbs did in Vukovar or Srebrenica, and there simply isn't anything on the same scale on the other sides). And yes, clearly, despite pretty much everyone issuing statements about how Kosovo is a special case, the way it gained independence is not helping Bosnian stability any (there has been some commentary to the effect that Dodik only got truly emboldent in his separatism after Kosovo's declaration, while being much more circumspect and conditional before).
Psychic_Sandwich wrote:What's the perception of the people living in RP itself to the idea of reformed federal government? It seems fairly obvious that if they don't want it, then it's not going to work; they form too large a proportion of the population to be forced into compliance like the Serbs in Kosovo, not if you want a functional nation left afterwards.
They mostly have an idiotic nationalistic separatist viewpoint. Even Serbs in Serbia proper have a much more nuanced and realistic viewpoint, even with regards to Kosovo. That is precisely why there needs to be a cantonisation that breaks down the ethnic entities into multicultural cantons (or however you want to call the individual units) - as it is now, the very structure of post-Dayton Bosnia is a major cause of tensions because wherever you look in the government (with the partial exception of the Brčko District - which is why it is an positive example) there are ethnic quotas, criteria, symbols (RS is exceptionally offensive in this regard) etc. As an example, aside from the Social Democratic Party, there isn't even a multiethnic significant political party in BiH - something clearly unhealthy (just look at this list of parties - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_po ... erzegovina). Basically, if it is to have any chance of working in the long term, Bosnia must be ethnically "secularised" from its current ethnic "theocracy" - and the Dayton agreement is the exact opposite, being the founding document that created those quotas, etc. Only once there isn't a constant reminder of ethnicity could the tensions die down. Unfortunately, any such solution would, by and large, have to be imposed from the outside - the Serbs are an obvious problem, but the other two sides also have unhealthy viewpoints (Bosniaks wanting a wholly unitary state, which they would dominate by virtue of highest population and Croats wanting their own entity, which is again extremely myopic and destabilising).
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Re: Bosnia - RS situation coming to a head

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Netko wrote:There really aren't any upsides aside from Bosnian Serbs and Croats, to a lesser extent, getting their idiotic nationalistic dreams fulfilled from allowing RS to secede
Collapse of larger nationstates into smaller entities rarely has many any upsides. Well, other than national independence.
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Re: Bosnia - RS situation coming to a head

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is a rump Bosniak state even viable ? i think the Muslims are geographically seperated and they wouldnt even have sea access.
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Re: Bosnia - RS situation coming to a head

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Stas Bush wrote:
Netko wrote:There really aren't any upsides aside from Bosnian Serbs and Croats, to a lesser extent, getting their idiotic nationalistic dreams fulfilled from allowing RS to secede
Collapse of larger nationstates into smaller entities rarely has many any upsides. Well, other than national independence.
I agree with you - but if the alternative is a genocidal civil war, is that really better? You can't just Rodney King this and say "can't we all just get along?"
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Re: Bosnia - RS situation coming to a head

Post by K. A. Pital »

I would be careful to use the word "genocidal" relative to civil wars (and including Yugoslav civil wars) so lightly - but terminology aside, yes, a peaceful partition of a nation is preferrable to a violent one.
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Re: Bosnia - RS situation coming to a head

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

SancheztheWhaler wrote:
Stas Bush wrote:
Netko wrote:There really aren't any upsides aside from Bosnian Serbs and Croats, to a lesser extent, getting their idiotic nationalistic dreams fulfilled from allowing RS to secede
Collapse of larger nationstates into smaller entities rarely has many any upsides. Well, other than national independence.
I agree with you - but if the alternative is a genocidal civil war, is that really better? You can't just Rodney King this and say "can't we all just get along?"
I think the problem is that the way Yugoslavia was partitioned wasn't along ethnic lines and then you have 3 or so races who didn't really like each other too much. Shady could probably fill in on the details since he's Bosnian if I recall.

It wouldn't be the first time some random western power made this mistake, but hey, all in the name of looking good, right? :D
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