US general pledges to retake Kandahar- what?!

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US general pledges to retake Kandahar- what?!

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ABUL, Afghanistan - The top U.S. and NATO commander in Afghanistan pledged Monday to retake the symbolic Taliban home ground of Kandahar in a campaign that builds on early signs of progress from the huge infusion of American and foreign forces.

"We're absolutely going to secure Kandahar," Gen. Stanley McChrystal told reporters travelling with U.S. Defence Secretary Robert Gates, who arrived Monday to talk with his commanders and Afghan officials.

The recent three-week military offensive by coalition and Afghan troops to evict insurgents from the strategic south Afghanistan town of Marjah is a model in spirit if not in practice for the larger, more complicated task of squeezing the Taliban in Kandahar and persuading Afghans to support the Kabul government instead.

The Afghan war is in its ninth year and unpopular with a majority of Americans. The challenge for the Obama administration is to demonstrate clear progress against the entrenched Taliban insurgency this year, when the number of U.S. forces in the country will reach roughly 100,000 - nearly triple the size of the force when Obama took office.

Preparations for the fight in the southern Afghan region around Kandahar have already begun, McChrystal said Monday.

Gates cited "bits and pieces of good news," but cautioned against overconfidence. His visit was his first since the start of a successful campaign to rout Taliban fighters from Marjah, once so thoroughly under militant control that a Taliban flag flew on a main road.

The NATO-led force is now growing in districts surrounding the city of Kandahar that are under the Taliban thumb. That is part of a gradual increase in pressure ahead of an eventual military operation, McChrystal said.

"There won't be a D-Day that is climactic," he said. "It will be arising tide of security when it comes."

Gates met Monday with Afghanistan's President Hamid Karzai and said he was of "like mind" with the Afghan leader, who is finishing details of a plan to offer jobs, vocational training and other economic incentives to tens of thousands of Taliban foot soldiers willing to switch sides.

Getting top Taliban leaders to the negotiating table is an even greater challenge. The Afghan government on Monday announced it was holding a three-day peace gathering in Kabul beginning April 29 to chart a plan for moving forward on reintegration and reconciliation.

Karzai said the government will embrace thousands of Taliban "who are sons of this soil and have been forced into militancy by circumstances or by various other events ... and that's a process that has the approval of our allies."

Gates cautiously agreed, saying: "The timing of this, really I think, in many respects depends on the conditions on the ground in terms of when people, particularly the more senior commanders, realize that the odds against their success are no longer in their favour."

Gates said the military offensive launched last month is encouraging, but stopped short of saying that success in Marjah suggests that the war is at a turning point.

"People still need to understand there is some very hard fighting, very hard days ahead," Gates told reporters travelling with him.

The major military phase of the campaign around the town of Marjah ended without a high casualty toll for U.S. troops and the Afghan security forces fighting alongside them.

At least 19 civilians were killed during the allied operations. The losses likely would have been worse without strict new rules pushed by McChrystal that limit air strikes, raids on homes and other risky combat operations.

Such operations are deeply unpopular with locals even if they can be successful against militants. McChrystal told reporters the campaign around Marjah could have gone quicker, but the cost in civilian casualties would have been unacceptable.

"Just as in Marjah, what we need to do is bring the local people into both having a sense of ownership of the government agenda, but also having some control and influence over it," said Mark Sedwill, the new senior civilian representative serving alongside McChrystal.

Sedwill called Marjah a template for the way the NATO-led forces intend to prosecute the war for the next year or more. The coming fight in Kandahar will be part of that redrawn plan, he said.

The 30,000 additional U.S. forces Obama approved are now arriving and most will be in place by summer. Without being specific, McChrystal suggested that any heavy fighting in Kandahar will wait until more U.S. and NATO troops are ready.

-

Associated Press Writer Deb Riechmann contributed to this report.
CSM
Afghanistan war: Fight for Kandahar won't be like fight for Marjah

In the next stage in the Afghanistan war, coalition forces are expected to build up gradually on the outskirts of the Taliban stronghold of Kandahar, perhaps for months. That strategy departs from the one executed in the Marjah offensive, in which troops entered quickly.

By Gordon Lubold Staff writer
posted March 9, 2010 at 7:29 pm EST
Washington —

The operation that American and coalition forces are planning for Kandahar in southern Afghanistan won’t look like D-Day, the top commander there said Tuesday.

Fresh off a recent success, so far, in Helmand Province, American military planners are thinking ahead to the next phase of challenging the Taliban in southern Afghanistan: Kandahar. But the fight for Kandahar – described as the New York City of Afghanistan for its cultural, political, and economic significance – is expected to be more measured than the operation in Marjah in Helmand, which was a precision strike that began with the insertion of hundreds of US marines by helicopter.

“There won’t be a D-Day that is climactic,” said Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the top commander there told reporters in Kabul, during a trip in which he escorted Defense Secretary Robert Gates. “It will be a rising tide of security when it comes.”

The operation in Marjah included about 2,500 marines and 1,500 Afghan soldiers – with as many as 10,000 troops in support. The top Marine commander in Marjah said last week the objective there was to come in “big, strong, and fast, [to] put the enemy on the horns of a dilemma.”

By contrast, the mission in Kandahar, expected to begin by summer, will be more gradual. Few details are clear, even in a counterinsurgency in which the NATO command has telegraphed its intentions before starting an operation, such as in Marjah last month. But military officials say Kandahar will require a more nuanced, measured approach in which forces will build up slowly, probably on the outskirts, before entering the city itself perhaps months later.

Kandahar is a much larger city and province, and coalition forces will take their time to enter due to the area's more complex political and tribal nature.

Marjah in 'hold and build' phase

McChrystal has had his eye on Kandahar, which the Taliban took over years ago, for a long time. But when he took charge of the mission last year, many American forces were already amassed in Helmand to the west.

While Helmand was a Taliban stronghold and much of the poppy crop that provides financial support for the insurgency grows there, many experts say it is not a strategic prize. Nonetheless, McChrystal mounted his first operation there under the new US strategy (and increased troop strength), as a demonstration of what could be done. Citing the clear-hold-build approach, military officials say that most combat operations are over in Marjah and that it is now in the “hold and build” phase.

That leaves room to begin planning for Kandahar and the districts that surround it, including Zhari, Panjawai, Khakrez, Arghandab, and Dand. (Monitor report: the importance of Kandahar to winning the Afghanistan war.)

Counterinsurgency experts say these outer areas hold the key to success for coalition forces entering Kandahar itself.

Gates warns of 'dark days' ahead

While not referring to operations in Kandahar specifically, Secretary Gates sought to prepare the military and the American and international community for the likelihood that the next few months will be no cakewalk.

“There is still much fighting ahead, and there will assuredly be more dark days,” Gate said at a press conference Tuesday with Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai, in Kabul. But there is reason to be hopeful that Afghan and coalition forces can rout the hardest elements of the Taliban and establish security for the rest of the population, he said.

“Looking forward," Gates said, "there are grounds for optimism as our countries pursue what President Karzai has called an Afghan-led and Afghan-owned initiative to ensure peace and stability.”
Does anyone find it slightly ridiculous that 8.5 years after this war started, the "New York City of Afghanistan" is not under Coalition control, and they're building up to take it?

[insert obligatory Vympel snide remark about 2001/2002 "we did what the Soviets couldn't" triumphalism]
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Re: US general pledges to retake Kandahar- what?!

Post by Tanasinn »

Well, presumably it becomes hard to hold an important city when you strip troops off to go participate in Chimpy's Magical Iraqi Adventure.
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Re: US general pledges to retake Kandahar- what?!

Post by loomer »

Oh christ, it's going to be a bloodbath out there. Kandahar is right up against the central mountains, which means they can put up a brisk fight and then go hide for a while. Giving them months to prepare is a huge mistake as well. That's a lot of time to make a lot of long-delay IEDs and other nasties.
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Re: US general pledges to retake Kandahar- what?!

Post by Artemas »

Kandahar city is largely controlled by isaf. The Taliban are able to infiltrate though, and that is largely the problem. Any operation in the city itself I imagine is more to flush out cells, than "retake" the city proper.
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Re: US general pledges to retake Kandahar- what?!

Post by K. A. Pital »

If you are going to build up forces and pour them into the city, this means you are not just increasing security level, but commiting to a military operation.

The control of the "Afghani government" over Afghanistan is nominal at best. The territories are controlled by Taliban, drug mafia warlords, or god knows whom else. The government in Kabul is an ineffective fig leaf trying to cover Afghanistan's true narco-feudal system that has finally been built up and is now stable.
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Re: US general pledges to retake Kandahar- what?!

Post by Darth Fanboy »

Meanwhile, back in 2001, SNL had a sketch about the War in Afghanistan where a group of partygoers revel in that year's taking of Kandahar by the Northern Alliance. To this day the damn song is still stuck in my head.

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/01/01fwarparty.phtml

Fuck back then everyone knew that this was the "spiritual stronghold" or whatever, and the fact that it has apparently been allowed to once again become a Taliban stronghold seems like bad mismanagement to me.
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Re: US general pledges to retake Kandahar- what?!

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

I thought that the place was already occupied and under control. Isn't there a big airfield there that's being used by the USA?
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Re: US general pledges to retake Kandahar- what?!

Post by Aaron »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:I thought that the place was already occupied and under control. Isn't there a big airfield there that's being used by the USA?
By every nation with a force in there basically. Kandahar is both a city and a Province though, we control the city, less so the rest. It's the same basic story in the rest of the nation; we control areas (a city, a FOB, a village) and the Taliban roam where ever they please.
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Re: US general pledges to retake Kandahar- what?!

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

You make it sound like the war in Afghanistan is just in its beginning stages with the Coalition forces just making the initial first strikes against the entrenched Talibanis right now.
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Re: US general pledges to retake Kandahar- what?!

Post by Aaron »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:You make it sound like the war in Afghanistan is just in its beginning stages with the Coalition forces just making the initial first strikes against the entrenched Talibanis right now.
In a way, it never got past that. Thats the consequences of not having enough men to go around.
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Re: US general pledges to retake Kandahar- what?!

Post by LT.Hit-Man303 »

The us lead coalition forces will never win this war, it is just like veit nam for the us again.
That asshat bush make a fatal mistake in fighting a war on two fronts, iraq and afganstand in his mad grab for oil, the solviets tried their hand in afganstand and got their asses handed to them, perhaps the us thought that their technical seporuty would win the day(sorry about the bad spelling it can't be helped due to my disabilties), that did not work in veit nam and it will not work in afganstand, if that was the case the war would have been over by now.
The only way the us will win this war is to use WMDs such a chem weapons as they did in viet nam but in that case they will have to use lethal agents such as nerve gas and other deady agents and I have no doubts that the us has done so as did the solviets when they were there.
Bio weapons are an iffy stubject as they could spread beyond there target areas and remain leath for a very long time.
Nukes are out because they are to conspicuse and would bring down world condemnation on the us.

Even if the us pulled out it's forces from iraq and deployed them to afganstand and take all of the major enemy strong points the talaban would just mingle with the locals and cary out sucide attacks and other froms of gurila warfare in which case the us led colation forces would be helpless unless they started killing all afganis because who do you tell if the person walking by you is an unarmed civiy or a sucide bomber?
You can't untill it's to late because even though a sucide bomboer would have sapsific targets in mind they would not hesatate to blow themselves up and take a few of the enemy with them instead of being captured and as such the us public's opinion of the war is growning darker and darker with each soldier that comes home in a body bag and as such it was the public's opinion that ended the war in viet nam.

Can you all see the point I'm trying to make?
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Re: US general pledges to retake Kandahar- what?!

Post by The Romulan Republic »

LT.Hit-Man303 wrote:That asshat bush make a fatal mistake in fighting a war on two fronts, iraq and afganstand in his mad grab for oil, the solviets tried their hand in afganstand and got their asses handed to them, perhaps the us thought that their technical seporuty would win the day(sorry about the bad spelling it can't be helped due to my disabilties), that did not work in veit nam and it will not work in afganstand, if that was the case the war would have been over by now.
You are correct that Bush screwed the whole thing up by ignoring Afghanistan in favor of Iraq. However, I think that the war could probably still be won with more competent leadership.
The only way the us will win this war is to use WMDs such a chem weapons as they did in viet nam but in that case they will have to use lethal agents such as nerve gas and other deady agents and I have no doubts that the us has done so as did the solviets when they were there.
Bio weapons are an iffy stubject as they could spread beyond there target areas and remain leath for a very long time.
Nukes are out because they are to conspicuse and would bring down world condemnation on the us.
That would just turn more Afghanis against us. The only way to win short of atrocities possibly up to possibly genocide is to win over more local support. WMDs would be among the worst things to use in light of that, pragmatically as well as morally.
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Re: US general pledges to retake Kandahar- what?!

Post by Knife »

We really can't win a war there till we decide on what we call winning. We have to have goal, and if we can accomplish them, we can say we win. We really don't have much of a goal there now as I see it. Kill Taliban? Pfft. We can kill a shit load of them, and tomorrow more will pop up.
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Re: US general pledges to retake Kandahar- what?!

Post by irishmick79 »

Knife wrote:We really can't win a war there till we decide on what we call winning. We have to have goal, and if we can accomplish them, we can say we win. We really don't have much of a goal there now as I see it. Kill Taliban? Pfft. We can kill a shit load of them, and tomorrow more will pop up.


Pretty much. We're stuck waiting for the Afghan army to figure out how to fight and the government to figure out how to govern effectively. Until that happens we're fighting in order not to lose. Not exactly an inspiring war strategy.
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Re: US general pledges to retake Kandahar- what?!

Post by Iosef Cross »

That's because it is an occupation force, in constant combat. The "war" will not end until the local government is strong enough to maintain itself. If American forces get out of the country before that the new state will be overthrow and a taliban state will emerge. I think that will probably happen, like in Vietnam.

Here in Brazil we have a similar situation in Rio de Janeiro were about 6 thousand people are killed every year, the police numbers in the tens of thousands and uses military equipment, like rifles, to occupy the regions controlled by drug lords.
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Re: US general pledges to retake Kandahar- what?!

Post by LT.Hit-Man303 »

The Romulan Republic wrote:
You are correct that Bush screwed the whole thing up by ignoring Afghanistan in favor of Iraq. However, I think that the war could probably still be won with more competent leadership.
True he should have focused on afganastand while using covert teams to disstablize the goverment in iraq while ole sadaamn insane was running the show to keep him off blance untill afganastand was delt with once and for all, but he was greedy for the oil

That would just turn more Afghanis against us. The only way to win short of atrocities possibly up to possibly genocide is to win over more local support. WMDs would be among the worst things to use in light of that, pragmatically as well as morally.
True but the us used chem weapons in viet nam (Agent Orange and what not)
So non lethal chem weapons are an option such as arasol LSD, I remeber them doing all sorts of fucked up experments on their own troops with that shit so that might be a doable option
All I know is that the us can never win and even if the afgan goverment becomes strong enough to deal with the taliban they will most likely turn a blind eye so long as the taliban does not attack them due to the deep running coruption in that country.
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