Teabaggers getting nastier.

[Liberty]

Imagine if a muslim had cut the gas line on a member of parliaments house. Do you honestly believe that there wouldn't already have been a fucking Code Red, nationwide manhunt and an offshore trip on a private jet to somewhere with less laws on the cards?

I was actually thinking about this from the beginning of the thread. If Muslims were smashing party office windows, calling in death threats to representatives, targeting representatives' children, issuing maps with bomb icons indicating who they wanted out of office, and cutting gas lines...to be honest, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Muslims would be rounded up like the Japanese were seventy years ago, and the Republicans would be leading the charge. Talk about double standards!

Also, that cross hairs map thing released by SarahPac targets my parents' representative, from where I lived until I was 18. Interesting.

And also, as an example of how these people think, when I was young and my dad was driving us somewhere and we would pass the armory, he would always point it out and say "when the government tries to crack down and take over the country as a dictatorship, that's where we'll go. We'll take it over first, and use its guns and ammunition to defend ourselves, just like the patriots in the Revolutionary War." I had that drilled into my head. In fact, my brain's default is to consider the government evil and dictatorial and about to "take over." I have to use manual override all the time...

Anyway, this is depressing. Is there somewhere I can move that's less depressing? I'm tired of being in a country with loons like this. Of course, I suppose there are at least some loons everywhere...

[hunter5]

I don't know doesn't seem to be any worse then they stuff they usually get (not to say they shouldn't be taken seriously but honestly they probably get calls like this all the time) seems less severe then the stuff we saw against Bush
Mob trashes campaign headquarters
posters
even a dam movie on how to kill Bush

Basically we have a bunch of people that wish certain politicians ill big deal nothing new just this time the media isn't ok with it.

[Crossroads Inc.]

I don't know doesn't seem to be any worse then they stuff they usually get (not to say they shouldn't be taken seriously but honestly they probably get calls like this all the time) seems less severe then the stuff we saw against Bush
Mob trashes campaign headquarters
posters
even a dam movie on how to kill Bush

Basically we have a bunch of people that wish certain politicians ill big deal nothing new just this time the media isn't ok with it.

Again I will make the case that the difference here is "Timeframe"

In the first year of Obama, Death threats went up form bush over 400 %
Over the span of 8 years we have had fewer death threats on sitting politicians then we have had in the past one year.
Over the past four days we have had more "direct" attacks and verbal threats on politicians then we have had in four years.

And as for "the media" being against it, The only media these people watch is fauxnews, and they have been actively encourage violence, directly telling people to "rise up" since before Obama was President.

are there wackos on the Left?
Yes..
Have they mad threats and acts of violence against the Right?
Yes..
Has it approached or even come close to the volume of Hatred, Violence and active Death threats now coming from Right wing wackos?
Not Even Close.

And most damning of all,
Does the Left / Liberals have a History Of institutionalizing, promoting, supporting and over all Ignoring violence and hate speech?
Again, not even close.

Do not ever make the case "Liberals do it too" When discussing current events, The mis-match in volume and amounts of incidents is forever tipped toward the Right..

[Gil Hamilton]

I'm not sure you're paying attention, hunter. Did any of those protests go around bringing firearms to places Bush was speaking at on a regular basis or attempt to murder the family of a politician they didn't like by sabatoging a gas line?

Great, you found some douchebag anti-Bush protestors who like guillotine imagery because Bush helped launch a goddamn war on false grounds that squandered thousands of lives and billions of dollars. How does that compare to people who are making similar death threats against congressmen and Obama for daring to try to reform healthcare and have become increasingly actually violent. Yet in your mind these are equivalent?

[hunter5]

I'm not sure you're paying attention, hunter. Did any of those protests go around bringing firearms to places Bush was speaking at on a regular basis or attempt to murder the family of a politician they didn't like by sabatoging a gas line?

Great, you found some douchebag anti-Bush protestors who like guillotine imagery because Bush helped launch a goddamn war on false grounds that squandered thousands of lives and billions of dollars. How does that compare to people who are making similar death threats against congressmen and Obama for daring to try to reform healthcare and have become increasingly actually violent. Yet in your mind these are equivalent?

All I have so far is the attempted murder of Eddie Adams back in 2008

Edit just remembered Kenneth Gladney Who was beaten by a group of pro health care supporters.

[Crossroads Inc.]

So we have a Beating by questionable union members and a true attempted Murder from 2004.

Before loolking at these I would like to ask Hunter to expound what ever point he might be making here SO I have a better Idea.

Are you saying Liberals are just as Bad as Conservatives?
Are you saying What is happening now isn't bad because Liberals did it to?
Are you in anyway defending what is happening now?

So far you have posted a handful of examples that, while rather damming, have been a spars amount, and done so without much statement. I simply wish a more coherent position from you before others may jump in here all snarling and such.

[The Romulan Republic]

Imagine if a muslim had cut the gas line on a member of parliaments house. Do you honestly believe that there wouldn't already have been a fucking Code Red, nationwide manhunt and an offshore trip on a private jet to somewhere with less laws on the cards?

Are you honestly that fucking blind?

Nice strawman.

I'll clarify: I never said a Muslim wouldn't be treated worse. I merely said that it isn't impossible to convict white Christian conservatives for this sort of crap. In my opinion, you are taking legitimate concerns about biases in the Justice system and exaggerating them. That is the problem. Please don't try to confuse the issue.

Note: for all I know, the guy who cut the line could have been a Muslim. It seems like you're just assuming he's a Teabagger type in the context of current events. Sure, I'd bet on it being a Teabagger too, but until they've convicted a Teabagger for it, we can't rule out other possibilities.

[Flagg]

Imagine if a muslim had cut the gas line on a member of parliaments house. Do you honestly believe that there wouldn't already have been a fucking Code Red, nationwide manhunt and an offshore trip on a private jet to somewhere with less laws on the cards?

Are you honestly that fucking blind?

Nice strawman.

I'll clarify: I never said a Muslim wouldn't be treated worse. I merely said that it isn't impossible to convict white Christian conservatives for this sort of crap. In my opinion, you are taking legitimate concerns about biases in the Justice system and exaggerating them. That is the problem. Please don't try to confuse the issue.

Note: for all I know, the guy who cut the line could have been a Muslim. It seems like you're just assuming he's a Teabagger type in the context of current events. Sure, I'd bet on it being a Teabagger too, but until they've convicted a Teabagger for it, we can't rule out other possibilities.

In the words of the POTUS... Yes we can. Especially since it was Teabaggers who fucking posted the address of the house. So who would be going there trying to blow the place up, fucking Santa Clause?

[The Romulan Republic]

In the words of the POTUS... Yes we can. Especially since it was Teabaggers who fucking posted the address of the house. So who would be going there trying to blow the place up, fucking Santa Clause?

Like I said, most likely a Right-winger.

[Elfdart]

The spectacle of a Republican accusing Democrats of "fanning the flames" while Sarah Palin posts pictures of Democrats with cross-hairs on them is ... well ... only in America.

Fomenting violent threats is nothing new for Caribou Barbie. Remember, this is the same person who accused Obama of "palling around with terrorists" and said nothing when one of her semen-crusted supporters shouted "KILL HIM!" right in front of her. She also chose, out of all the right-wing writers available, Westbrook Pegler to quote from in her acceptance speech. Pegler is best known for calling for the assassinations of FDR and Robert Kennedy.

[weemadando]

Imagine if a muslim had cut the gas line on a member of parliaments house. Do you honestly believe that there wouldn't already have been a fucking Code Red, nationwide manhunt and an offshore trip on a private jet to somewhere with less laws on the cards?

Are you honestly that fucking blind?

Nice strawman.

I'll clarify: I never said a Muslim wouldn't be treated worse. I merely said that it isn't impossible to convict white Christian conservatives for this sort of crap. In my opinion, you are taking legitimate concerns about biases in the Justice system and exaggerating them. That is the problem. Please don't try to confuse the issue.

Note: for all I know, the guy who cut the line could have been a Muslim. It seems like you're just assuming he's a Teabagger type in the context of current events. Sure, I'd bet on it being a Teabagger too, but until they've convicted a Teabagger for it, we can't rule out other possibilities.

It's not really a strawman if it's true. And by the way, the point about biases in the Justice system is at the centre of this argument. The fact that these good, middle class, white, christian folk are going out and committing crimes that would get ANYONE else arrested or worse and are instead getting fucking cheered on by the media is the whole fucking point.

You really are a fucking idiot who regurgitates Glenn Beck's madness wholesale if you think you can weasel your way out of this corner that you've made for yourself.

[Vastatosaurus Rex]

The scary thing about this is that Obama is merely a biracial centrist. If that's enough to rile up the Republicans to the extent that it has, imagine how they'll act were he either a dark-skinned black man, an actual liberal, or both.

[Gil Hamilton]

All I have so far is the attempted murder of Eddie Adams back in 2008

Edit just remembered Kenneth Gladney Who was beaten by a group of pro health care supporters.

So you have an attempted murder attempt that there were no suspects, let alone explicit motive and a case where some shady union guys beat up another guy? That's a pretty weak case for saying that liberals in the past have been every bit as violent as the Tea Party is becoming now.

There hasn't been a trend of liberals bringing firearms to Presidental speeches and certainly not the sharp rise in death threats on the President that Obama got.

Again, this is the same thing that gizmo did, the tu quoquo fallacy. The problem is that hasn't exactly been supported yet, nor does it address the OP. Personally, I'd much rather hear you speak on the topic in the OP, rather than try to change the subject.

[The Romulan Republic]

It's not really a strawman if it's true. And by the way, the point about biases in the Justice system is at the centre of this argument. The fact that these good, middle class, white, christian folk are going out and committing crimes that would get ANYONE else arrested or worse and are instead getting fucking cheered on by the media is the whole fucking point.

They're getting cheered on by some portions of the Right-wing media (ie the very people inciting their crimes). That is very different from the US Justice system. And it is a strawman regardless of weather its true, because I never really disputed weather a Muslim would be treated worse in the first place.

You really are a fucking idiot who regurgitates Glenn Beck's madness wholesale if you think you can weasel your way out of this corner that you've made for yourself.

Ah, I thought we might get to this point. I don't "regurgitate" your apparent view that all aspects of the American Justice system are so overwealmingly racist that convictions for terrorism by "white Christian conservatives" are impossible, ergo I must be a far-Right nut who's view are identical to Glenn Beck's.

Your view of reality is so fucking extremist, so fucking black-and-white that disputing the exact degree of racism in the US Justice system makes me the equivalent of fucking Glenn Beck? Here's a hint: look at my posting history in this forum. I am an Obama supporter. I despise the Tea Party movement. I am (by US standards anyway) a liberal.

I am not a Beck fan, you slandering son of a bitch. I expect an immediate retraction of and apology for the above lie.

[Coyote]

The scary thing about this is that Obama is merely a biracial centrist. If that's enough to rile up the Republicans to the extent that it has, imagine how they'll act were he either a dark-skinned black man, an actual liberal, or both.

He's worse: he bi-racial, which means that a good, pure, once-wholesome White girl allowed a filthy Black fellow to defile her. So he represents a failure of White society to protect it's "purity".

[weemadando]

It's not really a strawman if it's true. And by the way, the point about biases in the Justice system is at the centre of this argument. The fact that these good, middle class, white, christian folk are going out and committing crimes that would get ANYONE else arrested or worse and are instead getting fucking cheered on by the media is the whole fucking point.

They're getting cheered on by some portions of the Right-wing media (ie the very people inciting their crimes). That is very different from the US Justice system. And it is a strawman regardless of weather its true, because I never really disputed weather a Muslim would be treated worse in the first place.

Why hasn't Department of Homeland Security locked their slobbering chops onto this then? Why hasn't there been the lift in the domestic alert level? If Justice was truly blind, then it wouldn't matter who the threats came from they still should be treated the same way.

You really are a fucking idiot who regurgitates Glenn Beck's madness wholesale if you think you can weasel your way out of this corner that you've made for yourself.

Ah, I thought we might get to this point. I don't "regurgitate" your apparent view that all aspects of the American Justice system are so overwealmingly racist that convictions for terrorism by "white Christian conservatives" are impossible, ergo I must be a far-Right nut who's view are identical to Glenn Beck's.

Your view of reality is so fucking extremist, so fucking black-and-white that disputing the exact degree of racism in the US Justice system makes me the equivalent of fucking Glenn Beck? Here's a hint: look at my posting history in this forum. I am an Obama supporter. I despise the Tea Party movement. I am (by US standards anyway) a liberal.

I am not a Beck fan, you slandering son of a bitch. I expect an immediate retraction of and apology for the above lie.

OK, you're not a Beck fan, and you may be a liberal, but you still have the blinkers on if you think you can defend the US response to this as in any way not inappropriate or disproportionate.

[CarsonPalmer]

OK, you're not a Beck fan, and you may be a liberal, but you still have the blinkers on if you think you can defend the US response to this as in any way not inappropriate or disproportionate.

I don't think that's what he's arguing. General Schatten said that there was no chance that this guy could get tried and convicted because he was a white Christian conservatives. For all the faults and tilts in the playing field that favor white Christian conservatives, they can't get away with everything. It is still possible to get these guys; harder, but not impossible.

[Darth Wong]

OK, you're not a Beck fan, and you may be a liberal, but you still have the blinkers on if you think you can defend the US response to this as in any way not inappropriate or disproportionate.

I don't think that's what he's arguing. General Schatten said that there was no chance that this guy could get tried and convicted because he was a white Christian conservatives. For all the faults and tilts in the playing field that favor white Christian conservatives, they can't get away with everything. It is still possible to get these guys; harder, but not impossible.

On the other hand, while it's hyperbole, and while Ando is overreacting, I would argue that there's plenty of evidence for a sufficiently widespread pattern of white Christian conservative violence to go unpunished. In other words, nobody prosecuted whites for lynching blacks in the 50s because the underlying attitudes were so common. Similarly, I think you're going to see a pretty limp-wristed response to widespread escalation from these fleabaggers unless they do something extraordinary, like McVeigh did.

[Surlethe]

I hate the sort of tu quoque bullshit that hunter5 tried to pull. The fact of the matter is that right now, there is a pervasive pattern of right-wing extremist violence and threats. That pattern is matched by and correlated to right-wing extremist protesting (e.g., teabaggers), right-wing extremist misbehavior (e.g. Parkinson's man, "kill the bill, then kill the n*****"), and right-wing extremist rhetoric (e.g., Glenn Beck). The pattern is distinct against the typical background noise of extremist violence. When Bush was in office, there was left-wing grumbling, but there was no pattern of left-wing violence. You can pull up examples, but anybody can cherrypick examples; examples do not make a pattern. Ooh, two incidents in ten years! You hear of that many right-wing incidents every goddamned day. I'll bet you have to go back to the '60s or the violent unionization of the progressive era to get an equivalent level of left-wing violence.

[Darth Wong]

Not to mention the fact that we have someone as high-ranking as Sarah Palin egging them on with these cross-hair pictures; since when did such a high-profile Democrat ever do that? And if they had done it, you know they would have apologized the moment someone called them on it, instead of telling everyone that they're overreacting.

[Flagg]

Just look at the dipshits who broke into the Louisiana's senators office to bug her phones. They just had their charges reduced to misdemeanors. Now imagine if they were Muslims.

[Simon_Jester]

The scary thing about this is that Obama is merely a biracial centrist. If that's enough to rile up the Republicans to the extent that it has, imagine how they'll act were he either a dark-skinned black man, an actual liberal, or both.

I don't think a dark black man would bother them all that much more; "one drop" and all that. But a real liberal would... I have no idea what would happen. I'm tempted to turn Socialist and start pushing for Bernie Sanders for president just to see the fireworks...

No, that's a retarded idea. Never mind.

[bobalot]

I hate the sort of tu quoque bullshit that hunter5 tried to pull.

Just have a look at the douchenozzles posting history. Bullshit right wing talking points makes up a large proportion of what he posts. When he gets called on some bullshit he has posted, he runs away like a bitch.

As for the teabaggers, I get the feeling they will soon over reach like the radical left of the 60/70's and cause a backlash. Despite all the media noise, I get the feeling that teabaggers aren't liked much by the majority of Americans.

[Crossroads Inc.]

As for the teabaggers, I get the feeling they will soon over reach like the radical left of the 60/70's and cause a backlash. Despite all the media noise, I get the feeling that teabaggers aren't liked much by the majority of Americans.

This ties in with the age old adage "The Loudest in the room are the ones most heard."

For over a year the "Media" has saturated us with image after image of TeaParty loons protesting, shrieking, yelling, marching, Why, it makes it seem as if the whole country is behind them! They are everywhere always on the news! Their numbers must be huge!

Except they aren't.

When actually looked at and polled, the "TeaParty" is an incredibly small movement that simply is very very good at yelling and making itself look big. It also is an example of "Preaching to the Converted" Granted that they seemed to have an effect, support for "HealthCare" went down noticeably over the past year and everyone on the right shouted victory. yet within days of it passing, we see the numbers come back up to where they used to be.
Those that HAVE brains soon see that America is NOT ending or imploding and will think:
"I guess This Healthcare is a good thing.

Meanwhile the Teaparty grows ever violent and ever radical. With the main fire that has been stoking them gone, the fight against healthcare, most "Fair-weather" people are most likely going to leave and fade away, leaving the increasingly hard core nutters.

When I first heard about the outcries on the right when it seemed certain Healthcare would pass, at first I laughed and joked about it. Now that bricks have been hauled, windows broken, guns draw. I find myself thinking words like "Let us rise up and take back our nation with force" less idle talk and more of a plan to follow.

When only the nutters remain in a movement, it stops becoming a movement and starts becoming a mob. And the TRUELY scary thing is something Wong already mentioned, that BECAUSE these are white christian groups, they will be largely ignored and much less vigorously followed then if they were another ethnic group with dark sin.

[UnderAGreySky]

Grayson's Son Answers Death Threat Call

Ah America.... How do I love thee? Let me count the ways...