Concealed gun and booze? Virginia is for you!

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SirNitram
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Concealed gun and booze? Virginia is for you!

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Link
Philip Van Cleave wants every Virginian who has a permit to carry a concealed handgun into a bar to be able to have a drink - or he wants no gun carrier to be able to drink.

That's the choice that Van Cleave, the leader of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, wants to offer state lawmakers next year when the General Assembly reconvenes.

He said he is going to find a legislator to submit two bills to the body representing both positions.

His aim is to force lawmakers to expand the rights of concealed-handgun owners in bars or rescind the current exception that allows law-enforcement officers and commonwealth's attorneys to carry concealed weapons and consume alcohol.

"We're not allowed to drink, but they can," Van Cleave said. "That's two classes of citizens."

The proposal comes just days after Gov. Bob McDonnell, a Republican, signed into law a bill repealing the state's long-standing ban on holders of concealed-weapons permits carrying hidden guns into restaurants that serve alcohol. Permit holders will be allowed to enter with a firearm as long as they do not drink alcohol.

The law, which takes effect July 1, was a significant victory for the state's gun owners and the defense league, which had worked for 13 years on the issue.

"We've been fighting to get our rights back," Van Cleave told a gathering last Monday at the Second Amendment March in Washington.

"Rights that have been stripped away from us by politicians and corrupt courts that felt they can do what they please . . . without that pesky little Constitution getting in the way."

Van Cleave said one proposed bill would allow no one but an on-duty officer doing undercover work to drink alcohol while carrying a concealed weapon. The other bill will say that anyone can carry a concealed gun and drink if they wish, "as long as they are not drunk."

"Whatever the General Assembly assumes will apply to everyone," he said. "Police officers and permit holders are all in the same tent; so I say: General Assembly, you choose. But whatever it is, we're equal."

Administration officials were taking a wait-and-see approach.

"The governor is a strong supporter of Second Amendment rights," McDonnell press secretary Stacey Johnson said. "He will review any proposed legislation when it's introduced to the General Assembly."

Van Cleave's bold suggestion signals that the pro-gun lobby is reloading after its General Assembly success with the belief that it can gain more ground for gun owners.

The McDonnell administration has been decidedly more gun-friendly that the previous administration of Democratic Gov. Timothy M. Kaine.

As governor, Kaine vetoed nearly every expansion of gun rights that made it to his desk, including the restaurant bill.

Kaine also vetoed a bill that allows people without concealed-carry permits to stow firearms in locked containers or glove boxes in their vehicles.

Versions of both bills passed during the recently concluded assembly session, and McDonnell signed them. He even amended the glove-box bill to allow the weapons to be kept in unlocked containers, and the amendment was approved by the legislature Wednesday.

Any legislation submitted on the issue would have to clear the Democratic-controlled Senate Courts of Justice Committee to have a chance at becoming law.

Last month, committee chairman Sen. Henry L. Marsh III, D-Richmond, convened a special subcommittee of three Democrats and one Republican to hear a host of gun bills. Most of the bills were defeated and failed to advance to the full committee.

One member of the full committee, Sen. A. Donald McEachin, D-Henrico, said the new law allowing concealed guns in bars has enough problems without needing to be expanded.

"I fall into the category that no one should be drinking with a concealed weapon," he said.

"The real problem with [Van Cleave's] whole proposal is the same thing you run into with concealed guns in bars: How does anybody know if you're drinking? How do you enforce that? The problem is the enforceability piece."

The defense league and gun-rights advocates are not unhappy with their progress during the recently concluded General Assembly session. But they're showing no signs of slowing down.

On the list: repealing the state's one-gun-a-month purchase restriction. Concealing the names of concealed-carry permit holders. Removing the authority of state police to conduct background checks on gun purchasers who buy from federally licensed dealers.

"They certainly have gained ground," said McEachin, who said the legislative successes of such groups as the defense league signal the need for gun-control advocates in the legislature to be more proactive.

After two previous years of trying, Democrats this year did not pursue a bill that would require background checks of all purchases at gun shows.

"Those of us who are in favor of a more moderate, a more reasonable approach need to regroup," McEachin said. "Part of the problem is we haven't stayed on the offensive and offered ideas, and the table has been set by the Republican administration."
So. Already carry a concealed weapon into a bar or whathaveyou. Unenforcable 'don't drink while carrying' provision. INSUFFICIENT.

Oh, also remove background checks, let you buy more guns per month, and hiding who got CCP's. I'm staying on MY side of the mountains, I think, where everyone has a gun, but leaves them at home for the boozing.
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ShadowDragon8685
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Re: Concealed gun and booze? Virginia is for you!

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

No, I see what he's going for.

When California went gun-fear-crazy and started passing all laws restricting cosmetic and convienance features of rifles (because really, how many drive-by bayonetting happen in Los Angelas,) they left exemptions in for law enforcement and retired law enforcement to have personal weapons that exceeded the law.

So, the CA gun owners non-law-enforcement club sued that that was unequal and created a clear case of class system. CA agreed, by removing the exemptions for law enforcement and retired law enforcement.


What he's trying to do is remove the exemption enjoyed by law enforcement and attournies. He's proposing the opposite - letting everyone carry into a bar - as a way of making them realize "holy shit, we'd never let any random joe carry guns into bars, why are we letting cops and lawyers carry guns into bars?"
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Way to overwork a metaphor Shadow. I feel really creeped out now.
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SirNitram
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Re: Concealed gun and booze? Virginia is for you!

Post by SirNitram »

Actually, Virginia already passed a bill saying you can carry concealed in a bar. He just wants to push forth the possibility of letting you DRINK while carrying. Link

So your claim is incorrect. And I know damn well he's using 'equality' rhetoric, but consider this seriously. Intoxication(Already quite possible; the no-drinking clause is unenforcable) + Firearms.
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Simon_Jester
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Re: Concealed gun and booze? Virginia is for you!

Post by Simon_Jester »

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:What he's trying to do is remove the exemption enjoyed by law enforcement and attournies. He's proposing the opposite - letting everyone carry into a bar - as a way of making them realize "holy shit, we'd never let any random joe carry guns into bars, why are we letting cops and lawyers carry guns into bars?"
In Virginia, it's quite possible that this will work the other way around: "cops can drink in bars, why can't we?"
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Re: Concealed gun and booze? Virginia is for you!

Post by Crazedwraith »

The second possible law sounds sensible enough to me. What's the current justification for allowing police officers and attorneys to drink and carry?
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Re: Concealed gun and booze? Virginia is for you!

Post by Simon_Jester »

The danger is that given a choice between a stupid law that lets people do more things while carrying guns and a smart law that lets (slightly) fewer people do less things while carrying guns... Virginia will pick the stupid law.
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