Anti-Muslim protests/vandalism helping Taliban?

[SirNitram]

Link

Taliban officials know it’s sacrilegious to hope a mosque will not be built, but that’s exactly what they’re wishing for: the success of the fiery campaign to block the proposed Islamic cultural center and prayer room near the site of the Twin Towers in lower Manhattan. “By preventing this mosque from being built, America is doing us a big favor,” Taliban operative Zabihullah tells NEWSWEEK. (Like many Afghans, he uses a single name.) “It’s providing us with more recruits, donations, and popular support.”

America’s enemies in Afghanistan are delighted by the vehement public opposition to the proposed “Ground Zero mosque.” The backlash against the project has drawn the heaviest e-mail response ever on jihadi Web sites, Zabihullah claims—far bigger even than France’s ban on burqas earlier this year. (That was big, he recalls: “We received many e-mails asking for advice on how Muslims should react to the hijab ban, and how they can punish France.”) This time the target is America itself. “We are getting even more messages of support and solidarity on the mosque issue and questions about how to fight back against this outrage.”

Zabihullah also claims that the issue is such a propaganda windfall—so tailor-made to show how “anti-Islamic” America is—that it now heads the list of talking points in Taliban meetings with fighters, villagers, and potential recruits. “We talk about how America tortures with waterboarding, about the cruel confinement of Muslims in wire cages in Guantánamo, about the killing of innocent women and children in air attacks—and now America gives us another gift with its street protests to prevent a mosque from being built in New York,” Zabihullah says. “Showing reality always makes the best propaganda.”

Taliban officials say they’re looking forward to a new wave of terrorist trainees from the West like this year’s Times Square car bomber. “I expect we will soon be receiving more American Muslims like Faisal Shahzad who are looking for help in how to express their rage,” says a Taliban official who was a senior minister when the group ruled Afghanistan and who remains active in the insurgency. As an indication of the anger that is growing among some Muslims in the West, this official, who requested anonymity for security reasons, mentions the arrest of three Canadian Muslims in Ontario last week on charges of plotting to build and detonate improvised explosive devices. (A fourth individual was arrested in Ottawa last Friday in connection with the case.) The Ground Zero furor will likely add to that anger. “The more mosques you stop, the more jihadis we will get,” Zabihullah predicts.

Thanks, Right Wingers, for delivering a ready-made propaganda line straight to the freakin' Taliban.

[Big Phil]

Look, the reality is that no matter what happens with this mosque, somebody somewhere will use it as propaganda. If the mosque doesn't get built, it's proof that Americans hate Islam. If it does get built despite the protests, it's proof that Americans are can be beaten. If there were no protests, it's evidence that Americans are weenies and we've given up the fight.

Whining that we might be inspiring the "enemy" by protesting an Islamic mosque is absurd. It is not, and should not be, a consideration... unless you're going to similarly argue that abortion doctors should stop performing abortions because they're riling up the Christian nutcases, or similar absurdities.

[Samuel]

Except this only came up because people were trying to stop it. If it wasn't mentioned it wouldn't be a talking point. Also:

If it does get built despite the protests, it's proof that Americans are can be beaten.

How does that work? The Americans let Muslims build mosques, therefore we will win? I'm see a disconnected between the premise and conclusion.

[Soontir C'boath]

Sanchez, you should include in your thought that if we let this mosque get built, we are being beaten by our own first amendment!

What makes this worse is that they can say we are curtailing what is in our Bill of Rights from Muslims that are given to other religions.

[Sarevok]

Look, the reality is that no matter what happens with this mosque, somebody somewhere will use it as propaganda. If the mosque doesn't get built, it's proof that Americans hate Islam. If it does get built despite the protests, it's proof that Americans are can be beaten. If there were no protests, it's evidence that Americans are weenies and we've given up the fight.

Whining that we might be inspiring the "enemy" by protesting an Islamic mosque is absurd. It is not, and should not be, a consideration... unless you're going to similarly argue that abortion doctors should stop performing abortions because they're riling up the Christian nutcases, or similar absurdities.

Forget about taliban. Focus on normal average person who has a life, job, education and a career to think of. Just like you. They may occasionally go to the mosque and now they hear about how Americans banning mosque construction. That creates a bad impression of USA right there. People who are taliban can not be reasoned with but the masses of mindless middle is not something unique to America. It exists in muslim countries too. These are the peole who US should focus on. You cant convince someone who has taken up a kalashnikov in the name of Allah at an early age to ever lay down arms and come to like America. Not without extensive life changing experiences. But you can convince some civil engineer in Indonesia not to donate some money to an islamist outfit or join their club meetings for that matter.

[Zixinus]

How does that work? The Americans let Muslims build mosques, therefore we will win? I'm see a disconnected between the premise and conclusion.

When talking propaganda, its not the logic but the delivery that's important.

[General Zod]

How does that work? The Americans let Muslims build mosques, therefore we will win? I'm see a disconnected between the premise and conclusion.

When talking propaganda, its not the logic but the delivery that's important.

It's generally easier to drum up support over issues that make people angry, though. "Americans are weak sissies that will give us what we want" doesn't have quite the same impact as "Americans are hypocrites and are out to oppress our beliefs."

[Sarevok]

The thing is dislike for America has become a core part of many islamist organizations, even good ones, beliefs. The causes are tied to variety of reasons from Iraq to Israel. You will never change the perception of these deep and complex issues. They will always find a reason to dislike America as long as current geopolitican situation persists. You cant please these guys, its as simple as that.

[Morilore]

If nothing else, it's a nice punctuation mark on how full of fucking shit the "Ground Zero" "Mosque" "protesters" are.

Look, the reality is that no matter what happens with this mosque, somebody somewhere will use it as propaganda. If the mosque doesn't get built, it's proof that Americans hate Islam. If it does get built despite the protests, it's proof that Americans are can be beaten. If there were no protests, it's evidence that Americans are weenies and we've given up the fight.

Whining that we might be inspiring the "enemy" by protesting an Islamic mosque is absurd. It is not, and should not be, a consideration... unless you're going to similarly argue that abortion doctors should stop performing abortions because they're riling up the Christian nutcases, or similar absurdities.

It would be nice if people would point this out more when the douchebags talk about the "mosque" validating Islamic triumphalism or some shit. What we have here is a nice data point to throw at people who claim that letting the CC be built emboldens America's enemies.

[Big Phil]

Except this only came up because people were trying to stop it. If it wasn't mentioned it wouldn't be a talking point. Also:

If it does get built despite the protests, it's proof that Americans are can be beaten.

How does that work? The Americans let Muslims build mosques, therefore we will win? I'm see a disconnected between the premise and conclusion.

Much like American douchebags protesting the mosque's construction, Muslim douchebags around the world would see this as a sign that America can be beaten. Douchebags don't follow logic - they look for symbols they can grasp on to.

EDIT - do you remember Barak and Michelle Obama's "TERRORIST FIST BUMP OF DOOM!!!" that Fox News reported on last year? Douchebaggery... absurd douchebaggery... and yet someone made that a serious argument. Even if there had been no protests, someone would have made this an issue somewhere.

The article is silly anyway... the proper reason to support the construction of this mosque is the First Amendment, not because "we don't want to help the Taliban."

[D.Turtle]

Look, the reality is that no matter what happens with this mosque, somebody somewhere will use it as propaganda. If the mosque doesn't get built, it's proof that Americans hate Islam. If it does get built despite the protests, it's proof that Americans are can be beaten. If there were no protests, it's evidence that Americans are weenies and we've given up the fight.

Except that the community center including a prayer room was a total non-issue and unknown to the vast majority of the world until Fox News and the right-wing brigade made such a huge issue out of it.

And in fact this issue has blown up quite big - leading to a suspected case of arson at another mosque building site.

[General Zod]

Look, the reality is that no matter what happens with this mosque, somebody somewhere will use it as propaganda. If the mosque doesn't get built, it's proof that Americans hate Islam. If it does get built despite the protests, it's proof that Americans are can be beaten. If there were no protests, it's evidence that Americans are weenies and we've given up the fight.

Except that the community center including a prayer room was a total non-issue and unknown to the vast majority of the world until Fox News and the right-wing brigade made such a huge issue out of it.

And in fact this issue has blown up quite big - leading to a suspected case of arson at another mosque building site.

We've had one attempted murder already.

[Big Phil]

Look, the reality is that no matter what happens with this mosque, somebody somewhere will use it as propaganda. If the mosque doesn't get built, it's proof that Americans hate Islam. If it does get built despite the protests, it's proof that Americans are can be beaten. If there were no protests, it's evidence that Americans are weenies and we've given up the fight.

Except that the community center including a prayer room was a total non-issue and unknown to the vast majority of the world until Fox News and the right-wing brigade made such a huge issue out of it.

And in fact this issue has blown up quite big - leading to a suspected case of arson at another mosque building site.

Are you seriously arguing that the construction of this mosque would NEVER have been used as propaganda by some asshole, somewhere in the world, if the right wing hadn't started acting like a bunch of douchebags about it?

[D.Turtle]

Are you seriously arguing that the construction of this mosque would NEVER have been used as propaganda by some asshole, somewhere in the world, if the right wing hadn't started acting like a bunch of douchebags about it?

Yes, why would they?

It is a community center in Lower Manhattan that will include a prayer room. There is another mosque just a few blocks away. Nobody gave a shit about it.

You don't see anybody crowing about a prayer room in the Pentagon.

[Big Phil]

Are you seriously arguing that the construction of this mosque would NEVER have been used as propaganda by some asshole, somewhere in the world, if the right wing hadn't started acting like a bunch of douchebags about it?

Yes, why would they?

It is a community center in Lower Manhattan that will include a prayer room. There is another mosque just a few blocks away. Nobody gave a shit about it.

You don't see anybody crowing about a prayer room in the Pentagon.

Do you even realize that you just made my point for me? A mosque is being constructed, and harms no one, and yet Christian religious assholes lose their collective shit... for no logical reason. But somehow you think Muslim religious assholes will be MORE logical and reasonable and not say anything about it?

[SirNitram]

Would they even notice?

'New community centre erected' is lucky to make the public interest stories in the local papers. Anything that'd get overseas? Pffffaw.

[D.Turtle]

Do you even realize that you just made my point for me? A mosque is being constructed, and harms no one, and yet Christian religious assholes lose their collective shit... for no logical reason. But somehow you think Muslim religious assholes will be MORE logical and reasonable and not say anything about it?

Umm, the right wing only went bat-shit about it when they needed something new to go bat-shit about. Even Fox News supported it up to that point. Nobody gave a shit about it until recently.

And once again, do you see any Muslims crowing about their successful subversion and defiling of American military might because of their prayer room in the Pentagon?

[Big Phil]

Do you even realize that you just made my point for me? A mosque is being constructed, and harms no one, and yet Christian religious assholes lose their collective shit... for no logical reason. But somehow you think Muslim religious assholes will be MORE logical and reasonable and not say anything about it?

Umm, the right wing only went bat-shit about it when they needed something new to go bat-shit about. Even Fox News supported it up to that point. Nobody gave a shit about it until recently.

And once again, do you see any Muslims crowing about their successful subversion and defiling of American military might because of their prayer room in the Pentagon?

I'm consistently amazed by what religious wackos decide to carry on about. Not long ago some idiot in Afghanistan got a bug up his but about the Bamyan Buddhas and had them all blown up. Was that logical? Did that make sense? I take no issue with articles saying "Americans going apeshit over a mosque are pissing off mainstream Muslims." The argument that the protests might inspire the religious idiots in Afghanistan (the argument this article is making) is senseless, as religious wackos don't need excuses to go apeshit. They'll find something to get offended about, either mosque protests, or Americans in Iraq/Afghanistan, or loose women not wearing veils, or something...

[D.Turtle]

I'm consistently amazed by what religious wackos decide to carry on about. Not long ago some idiot in Afghanistan got a bug up his but about the Bamyan Buddhas and had them all blown up. Was that logical? Did that make sense? I take no issue with articles saying "Americans going apeshit over a mosque are pissing off mainstream Muslims." The argument that the protests might inspire the religious idiots in Afghanistan (the argument this article is making) is senseless, as religious wackos don't need excuses to go apeshit. They'll find something to get offended about, either mosque protests, or Americans in Iraq/Afghanistan, or loose women not wearing veils, or something...

No argument from me there.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

You're still not getting the point, Sanchez. The problem isn't the wackos who will find any excuse to hate America (and by the way, even for the the wackos the actual offenses still have to be grave enough for them to actually organize and commit violence instead of just collectively simmering with rage like the various militias here in the States). The problem is potential terrorist sympathizers who will (correctly) see it as confirmation that America considers all forms of Islam as the enemy, and they will be more likely to support or even join terrorist organizations as a result.

[Maj]

Just because I'm curious... How do reporters get these kinds of interviews?

[Dalton]

Just because I'm curious... How do reporters get these kinds of interviews?

Any number of ways, really. Could be a Newsweek foreign correspondent based out of Afghanistan or Pakistan either knew someone or went through official or semiofficial channels - Googling the name brings up a self-proclaimed Taliban "spokesman". Otherwise, for cases like this, it can be as simple as conducting a telephone interview with a Newsweek reporter in the US. Could also be that the Taliban initiated contact with Newsweek.

[Maj]

Thanks, Dalton.

I think this is the best summary I've seen of what's going on:

The problem is potential terrorist sympathizers who will (correctly) see it as confirmation that America considers all forms of Islam as the enemy, and they will be more likely to support or even join terrorist organizations as a result.

Basically, what the article is saying is "Thanks, America. Now we don't have to put any effort into propaganda. You're doing it for us."

Yes, people will always find a reason to hate if that's their goal, but we just happen to be making their job really easy.