Google's Eric Schmidt criticises education in the UK

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Chirios
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Google's Eric Schmidt criticises education in the UK

Post by Chirios »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14683133
Google chairman Eric Schmidt has said education in Britain is holding back the country's chances of success in the digital media economy.

He made his comments at the MacTaggart Lecture at the Edinburgh International Television Festival.

Dr Schmidt said the UK needed to reignite children's passion for science, engineering and maths.

And he announced a partnership with the UK's National Film and TV School, to help train young online film-makers.

Dr Schmidt told the audience of broadcasters and producers that Britain had invented many items but were no longer the world's leading exponents in these fields.

He said: "If I may be so impolite, your track record isn't great.

"The UK is home of so many media-related inventions. You invented photography. You invented TV. You invented computers in both concept and practice.

"It's not widely known, but the world's first office computer was built in 1951 by Lyons' chain of tea shops. Yet today, none of the world's leading exponents in these fields are from the UK."

Television transformed
He said he had been flabbergasted to learn that computer science was not taught as standard in UK schools, despite what he called the "fabulous initiative" in the 1980s when the BBC not only broadcast programmes for children about coding, but shipped over a million BBC Micro computers into schools and homes.

"Your IT curriculum focuses on teaching how to use software, but gives no insight into how it's made. That is just throwing away your great computing heritage," he said.

He said the UK needed to bring art and science back together, as it had in the "glory days of the Victorian era" when Lewis Carroll wrote one of the classic fairy tales, Alice in Wonderland, and was also a mathematics tutor at Oxford.

Dr Schmidt said the internet was transforming television, even though people still spent much more time with TV than the web.

Money shared
The TV and the internet screens were converging, he said, and a social layer was being added to TV shows through Twitter and chat forums.

He denied claims by Rupert Murdoch and others that Google was a parasite, taking billions of pounds in advertising without investing in content - saying that last year it shared $6bn worldwide with its publishing partners including newspapers and broadcasters.

He also said Google was a friend, not a foe, of television.

"Trust me - if you gave people at Google free rein to produce TV you'd end up with a lot of bad sci-fi," he said.

He also reassured television bosses over copyright violations, saying Google could take down sites from its search system within four hours if there were problems.

Dr Schmidt is the first non-broadcaster to give the landmark lecture, which is dedicated to the memory of actor and producer James MacTaggart.

It has previously been delivered by some of the most prominent names in broadcasting including Jeremy Paxman, Mark Thompson, and Rupert Murdoch and his son James.
Someone thinks that British schools aren't that good? Heaven forfend.

That said, British schools aren't that bad. There are areas in which they can, should, and need to be improved. But that can be said of every school in every country in the world.
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Re: Google's Eric Schmidt criticises education in the UK

Post by Dalton »

I think he should focus more on American schools, which are being threatened more and more every day by the specter of politically-driven ignorance, anti-intellectualism and a movement away from scientific inquiry into the realm of superstition.
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Re: Google's Eric Schmidt criticises education in the UK

Post by Starglider »

Dalton wrote:I think he should focus more on American schools, which are being threatened more and more every day by the specter of politically-driven ignorance, anti-intellectualism and a movement away from scientific inquiry into the realm of superstition.
'Focus on?' It was a conference in the UK. I'm sure that at American conferences he talks about American schools.
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Re: Google's Eric Schmidt criticises education in the UK

Post by Zaune »

Starglider wrote:
Dalton wrote:I think he should focus more on American schools, which are being threatened more and more every day by the specter of politically-driven ignorance, anti-intellectualism and a movement away from scientific inquiry into the realm of superstition.
'Focus on?' It was a conference in the UK. I'm sure that at American conferences he talks about American schools.
Wouldn't have to change the speech much either. And I have to say he probably has a point about the standard of IT teaching in UK schools; we were taught to use Microsoft Office and Internet Explorer well enough to be an adequate secretary/low-paid office drone but that was about it when I was at school, and as far as I can gather from meeting people who left school after I did it hasn't got a lot better since.
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Re: Google's Eric Schmidt criticises education in the UK

Post by Johonebesus »

Zaune wrote:Wouldn't have to change the speech much either. And I have to say he probably has a point about the standard of IT teaching in UK schools; we were taught to use Microsoft Office and Internet Explorer well enough to be an adequate secretary/low-paid office drone but that was about it when I was at school, and as far as I can gather from meeting people who left school after I did it hasn't got a lot better since.
Wouldn't have to change much? Granted, it's been nearly twenty years, but there were just one or two computer courses in my highschool, they weren't mandatory, and, from what I was told, they barely taught basic word processing with MS Works while mostly just doing "wow neat" things like scanning documents and learning to print banners. None of the computers had those new CD-Rom drives, and nobody cared about text based BBS boards, not that the computers had modems anyway. In poorer districts I doubt things are much better today. Doesn't the U.K. at least have centralized funding for schools? Here schools are funded and controlled locally, so there is gigantic disparity in quality. There's not much point in talking about top-down education reform without addressing the funding and control issues.
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Re: Google's Eric Schmidt criticises education in the UK

Post by madd0ct0r »

Chirios wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14683133

He also said Google was a friend, not a foe, of television.

"Trust me - if you gave people at Google free rein to produce TV you'd end up with a lot of bad sci-fi," he said.

.
Someone thinks that British schools aren't that good? Heaven forfend.

That said, British schools aren't that bad. There are areas in which they can, should, and need to be improved. But that can be said of every school in every country in the world.

clipped to the important bit.

joking aside - it's not just IT, it's science, engineering all of the techincal side.

and weirdly - it's still difficult to get a job even if you do study these desired subjects. there's just not enough demand in the UK for them.
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Re: Google's Eric Schmidt criticises education in the UK

Post by Questor »

Johonebesus wrote:Granted, it's been nearly twenty years,
How stupid are you? You're basing your opinion on the state of educational technology TODAY on your experience 20 years ago?

E-Rate and Universal Service didn't happen until 1997.

In 1997, the Census did a study on computer and internet use.

In 1993, 60.6% of children had used a computer at school, by 1997, that had risen to 70.8%. Please note, that that is without special funding and discounts to increase computer and internet penetration. In 1997, 18% of Americans had access to the internet

The same report, from 2003, showed computer use at school at 92.3%. 54.7 percent of Americans had internet access.

I'm sure technology education is completely the same now as it was in 1991.
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Re: Google's Eric Schmidt criticises education in the UK

Post by Questor »

Found more information on Ed-Data (love them)

Lowest per pupil expenditure in 2009-2010 for a california school district was Dixon Unified in Solano County with $6,431/pupil and 3,952 students. The district had a student to computer ratio of (at most) 6.2. That means that there are at least 637 computers in the district.

According to the school data, in the traditional high school, with an enrollment of 1249, has 200 computers. It has 80 classrooms with the internet.
DHS's School Accountability Report Card wrote:The New Dixon High School opened its doors in August of 2007. Currently there are 65 classrooms being used by Dixon High, 1 classroom used by our Independent Studies program, and 13 unused rooms. Each room has a built in LCD projector, surround sound, DVD/VCR combo, classroom phone, built in screen, built in book shelves, and a teacher computer.
Other features of Dixon High School are: Welding/AG Shop
Woodshop
Ceramics room with kiln outside on secured patio Band room
Library with computer lab 3 Computer Labs
1 Science Computer Lab Fashion Design Room Culinary room
Learning Center used for free tutorial services Career Center
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Amphitheater
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2 softball fields
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The technology there, at California's poorest* high school, is just... horrible.

*Yes, I am aware that other schools might have lower funding, but since the fiscal data is only available on a district basis, I have to assume that the lowest per pupil expenditures really do equal the poorest schools.
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Re: Google's Eric Schmidt criticises education in the UK

Post by Questor »

Ghetto Addition: I also realize that the fact that the school is brand new distorts things, but I've already spent as much time on this as I care to.
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Re: Google's Eric Schmidt criticises education in the UK

Post by Johonebesus »

Questor wrote:Found more information on Ed-Data (love them)

Lowest per pupil expenditure in 2009-2010 for a california school district was Dixon Unified in Solano County with $6,431/pupil and 3,952 students. The district had a student to computer ratio of (at most) 6.2. That means that there are at least 637 computers in the district.

According to the school data, in the traditional high school, with an enrollment of 1249, has 200 computers. It has 80 classrooms with the internet.
DHS's School Accountability Report Card wrote:The New Dixon High School opened its doors in August of 2007. Currently there are 65 classrooms being used by Dixon High, 1 classroom used by our Independent Studies program, and 13 unused rooms. Each room has a built in LCD projector, surround sound, DVD/VCR combo, classroom phone, built in screen, built in book shelves, and a teacher computer.
Other features of Dixon High School are: Welding/AG Shop
Woodshop
Ceramics room with kiln outside on secured patio Band room
Library with computer lab 3 Computer Labs
1 Science Computer Lab Fashion Design Room Culinary room
Learning Center used for free tutorial services Career Center
Theater
Amphitheater
Big and Small Gym
Multiuse stadium with all weather track
2 baseball fields
2 softball fields
Multiuse lighted practice field
10 acre solar farm which powers our school site
The technology there, at California's poorest* high school, is just... horrible.

*Yes, I am aware that other schools might have lower funding, but since the fiscal data is only available on a district basis, I have to assume that the lowest per pupil expenditures really do equal the poorest schools.
If you think that's typical of a school in a poor district in the South, you're the idiot.

I am modestly familiar with the state of education at the local high school. They do have internet connection now, but they still have only a basic introductory course as an elective. Some elementary schools have computers labs. My mother's (she's an elementary teacher) has a few in classrooms for teachers to use at their discretion. I imagine almost all the students can claim to have "used" a computer, but that might only be playing a game or getting to look at some educational site as a reward during free time.

A half dozen years ago, when I was working in the library, I spent a good deal of time helping teenagers figure out how to use the catalogue. I'm no computer techie by any means, but some of these kids didn't have any basic sense of how computers work. Sometimes I had to help them surf the web or use a word processor or print a document on the free access computers. These weren't little kids or old fogeys, but teenagers with access to their high school's computer lab.

This district isn't too poor or backwards, relative to other poor states. Your example comes from one state that has a reputation for good education. I can tell you that your "poor" school looks pretty damned good compared to poor schools in the Georgia, and we're not quite at the very bottom of the heap.
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Re: Google's Eric Schmidt criticises education in the UK

Post by Uraniun235 »

Questor wrote:
Johonebesus wrote:Granted, it's been nearly twenty years,
How stupid are you? You're basing your opinion on the state of educational technology TODAY on your experience 20 years ago?

E-Rate and Universal Service didn't happen until 1997.

In 1997, the Census did a study on computer and internet use.

In 1993, 60.6% of children had used a computer at school, by 1997, that had risen to 70.8%. Please note, that that is without special funding and discounts to increase computer and internet penetration. In 1997, 18% of Americans had access to the internet

The same report, from 2003, showed computer use at school at 92.3%. 54.7 percent of Americans had internet access.

I'm sure technology education is completely the same now as it was in 1991.
Anecdotally, if districts have been making budget cuts for some time, their technology education may have regressed since the 90s. The district I work at has zero classes on programming, keyboarding, computer/network administration... the only thing left is a class on basic application usage (i.e. how to use a word processor and a spreadsheet program). There's plenty of hardware but no money to pay for the teachers necessary to teach those courses.
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Re: Google's Eric Schmidt criticises education in the UK

Post by Teebs »

I remember when I was at middle school (so year 6 or 7) they did some very basic programming stuff with the computers. Can't remember which program, but basically making it draw particular shapes and such. I've no idea whether that was/is typical though.
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Re: Google's Eric Schmidt criticises education in the UK

Post by ComradeClaus »

My schools only had apple iis until the LATE 90's, when a few early macs were added. I was in awe of the things a computer mouse could do. (like pwn buffalo in Oregon trail. Or greeks in civilization, or cause earthquakes by typing FUNDS in SimCity) Had no teaching in computers at all, everything I learned the hard, SLOW way. I can't even recall when I learned about the internet. TV probably. Oh, I think it was when Gore was claiming he invented it. Had no idea what he was talking about. Oh, & a bunch of PBS shows at the time ended w/ a promp to visit their http:s. Not until 2007 when I logged on for the first time. (I lived for about a decade in the boonies where I couldn't even get dial-up)
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Re: Google's Eric Schmidt criticises education in the UK

Post by Questor »

I'd like to see some backup on Johonebesus's claims that his local schools spend significantly less than the school district I provided data on - especially when adjusted for local costs. According to EdWeek Georgia's average spend is almost $10,000 per pupil in 2008. Just talking about income disparity isn't the only issue. Let's talk education policy, lets talk politically motivated curriculum decisions, lets talk disproportionate funding. Don't just pass it off on Georgia doesn't care about education. NOBODY seems to care about education in politics - probably because kids don't vote.

I'd be willing to stipulate that education policy with regard to technology could use a lot of work, and a heck of a lot more money. I just take issue with the assumption that the state of technology in ONE school TWENTY years ago is representative of the state of Educational Technology today.

Was funding better 10-12 years ago? Of course.

Teebs, does Logo sound familiar? That's what I used in Jr high.
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