Australia to allow women in frontline conbat roles

[weemadando]

No link as the story is still a bit hazy, but apparently they want to have full integration within five years, including SF units.

The defence minister played pretty coy when asked about physical strength and fitness tests which currently have different standards for men and women...

Like I said, the actual details are still pretty vague.

[Artemas]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-15074246

To be honest, I could have sworn that Australia had done this years ago. Bit surprised.

Good on them, though I suspect a single standard will be used for infantry, which will likely weed out nearly or all women anyway.

[weemadando]

Like most nations though we've already got women in combat by virtue of mixed up COIN teams with all kinds of units and disciplines represented getting ambushed etc. This is just making it official.

[mr friendly guy]

I remember a few years ago we were suggesting something like this. I think people don't have a problem if the women are subjected to the same conditions as the men, ie they have to pass the physical requirements when it comes to frontline combat. Naturally progressive that he was John Howard didn't like it and created a giant strawman, that is the ADF would be asked to allow women in, purely because they are women.

[Artemas]

you mean quotas, yeah? just for the ADF overall, or specifically combat trades?

i ask because the CF adopted quotas for women and minorities, and that was (and still is, when people notice it) unpopular. but it was for the entire force, not trade specific (which would probably have been disastrous).

the quotas for women also spurred on the segmentation and lowering of physical standards for women, so as to meet the "targets".

[mr friendly guy]

I don't recall Howard being specific. I got the impression it was just a scare campaign even though I recall it being mentioned women would only be allowed in if they matched the physical requirements, as opposed to just being allowed in because we want more women on the force.

[Alkaloid]

At this stage, the word among the military is that the ADF is using it as a chance to completely rebuild their fitness standards and testing. Standards will become corps specific, so all combat roles will have higher standards than non combat, and be the same for men and women, and that while the official line is 'SF will be included' they are not going to have to accept anyone they don't want to, even of they do meet the standards, but anyone who didn't think this has been the case for years is delusional.

[Korto]

Heard a military guy talking about it last night, and the plan was to set one set of physical requirements for each job. If you can meet them, you're in, regardless of gender. When asked he said yes, this would cut out a lot of women from some roles (he mentioned that the number of 3% likely to qualify for I think it was Special Forces), but he was unapologetic about it (which is as it should be).
When also asked, he said yes, a number of people in Defense probably will have a problem with the new roles for women, with a definite sub-tone of they can either follow orders or get the hell out.
It's going to take a while, while they work out physical requirements for all roles.

[Block]

Heard a military guy talking about it last night, and the plan was to set one set of physical requirements for each job. If you can meet them, you're in, regardless of gender. When asked he said yes, this would cut out a lot of women from some roles (he mentioned that the number of 3% likely to qualify for I think it was Special Forces), but he was unapologetic about it (which is as it should be).
When also asked, he said yes, a number of people in Defense probably will have a problem with the new roles for women, with a definite sub-tone of they can either follow orders or get the hell out.
It's going to take a while, while they work out physical requirements for all roles.

That's been part of the problem the US military has had with integrating women into more direct combat roles, the seperate physical (and often discipline) standards have made things difficult. Currently I can fail my APFT and still score extremely high on the female version of the APFT for my age range.

[Artemas]

Yeah, Canada has the same issue wherein a 20 year old women has roughly the same physical requirements to beat as a 45 year old man.

If the ADF use this as an opportunity to make fitness standards trade specific, then good on them.